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Forest Industry
Mr. S. Graham: On September 29, 2004, UPM-Kymmene announced the closure of its kraft mill
in the Miramichi. I was very concerned that night about how this decision would impact the lives
of many Miramichiers, and I took the opportunity to call the Premier personally and talk to him.
That night, the Premier and I discussed what opportunities for investment could occur in New
Brunswick, and I brought the Premier up to date on the fact that UPM-Kymmene, at that time, was
looking at a feasibility study to invest millions of dollars in its mill in Blandin, Minnesota. The
Premier was unaware of this. In all fairness, he cannot be on top of every file.
However, what I am concerned about this week is that, when the decision was made this week to
announce the three-month closure of UPM-Kymmene’s two operations in the Miramichi, on the
same day in Finland, it was announcing a major project where it would undertake an innovative new
machining process that combines both wood and plastic in a value-added process. My question to
the Premier is this: Why can we not work together to create that type of investment for value-added
opportunities here in New Brunswick?
Hon. Mr. Lord: We can work together—absolutely, we can. We have invited the opposition, on
many occasions, to work with us, but I have to say that when I hear the Leader of the Opposition say
what he is saying with the arrogance that he is saying it today, it is amazing. The Leader of the
Opposition wants to pretend that he is calling me and giving me advice and bring me up to date.
That arrogance is really remarkable.
I want to state unequivocally that we are prepared to work with the opposition. I want to note that
in the past couple of days, I have heard some members, including the member for Moncton North,
state that we need to bring in targeted tax relief. I remember that a few years ago, we brought in
targeted tax relief for large industries in this province, and the opposition refused to work with us
then. In fact, it voted against it. I want to state unequivocally in this House today that the
government is more than willing to work together with the opposition on this file and any other file.
Mr. S. Graham: I seem to have touched a nerve with the Premier this morning.
My second question for the Premier is this. We need to create an environment for investment for
value-added opportunities. Can you confirm this morning whether your government has evaluated
a project with a company in southern New Brunswick—actually, in St. Stephen—with Flakeboard,
to look at the creation of value-added furniture products with a potential partner, Ikea? It would
create hundreds of jobs in this region of the province, thus value-adding a low-end product such as
sawdust and shavings, which go into the medium-density fibreboard and particle board project. I see
the Minister of Finance shaking his head, so I am hoping that the Premier, this morning, can update
us on the status of that very important project.
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Hon. Mr. Lord: When the Leader of the Opposition says that he touches a nerve, I want to be very
clear. If he is going to relay conversations that he had with me, I am going to make sure that the
information is correct. That is the nerve. I will not let the opposition say things that are untrue and
let them go unchecked. The fact is that we are creating that environment in New Brunswick. That
is why, as our member stated this morning, there are close to 30 000 more jobs in New Brunswick
this year than there were in 1999. Wages are growing faster in New Brunswick than the Canadian
average. We are closing the economic gap between New Brunswick and Canada. That is what we
are doing by investing in people and by creating the environment with lower taxes. I remember last
year, when the Minister of Finance tabled the budget with tax reductions for businesses, the
opposition called it a gimmick.
014 11:00
Mr. S. Graham: I hear the Premier’s voice rising, but he has not answered the question that was
asked. There was a very important project proposed to this government where we could see the
opportunity to create hundreds of jobs in the St. Stephen region, where a partnership with
Flakeboard would see us moving into furniture component manufacturing. My question to the
Premier this morning is this: What is the status of that important project?
Hon. Mr. Lord: The government is approached, and we approach businesses on an ongoing basis
to review series of projects. This project is being reviewed and has been reviewed. There is ongoing
dialogue between the government and this company. In recent years, in the last six years, we have
made investments to help this company grow in St. Stephen. It has worked. We have invested in
infrastructure. I do not remember the exact figure, but I will be happy to bring that figure to this
House. We continue to examine these various projects.
Mr. S. Graham: In talking to community leaders in the St. Stephen area, it is my understanding the
Deputy Minister of Natural Resources and Energy approached the company officials and clearly
indicated that the government would not be proceeding with the project at this time. My question
to the Premier is this: Can you give us a specific update on the status of this project?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I answered the question before. We are not going to jump at every single proposal,
because some proposals are not the right ones for New Brunswick. I remember that, just a few
months ago, the minister had to come in with a series of loans and grants that had been offered by
the previous government that had to be written off—it was close to $35 million—because it jumped
at projects that clearly were not the right ones.
We will continue to work with this company. We will continue to work with other companies, as
well, that want to invest in New Brunswick, but we will make sure that the investments are the right
ones for the taxpayers of New Brunswick and the right ones for the province of New Brunswick.
Clearly, this year, our unemployment rate will again be below 10%. Last year, the unemployment
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rate was below 10% for the first time in 30 years. We are on the right track, and we are going to stay
on the right track.
Mr. S. Graham: New Brunswickers must be shocked today to hear that the government and the
Premier are not going to jump at every opportunity to create jobs in New Brunswick. I can tell you
that we need an activist government today, because if there is an opportunity to create value-added
jobs from sawdust and shavings, the lowest grade product that is produced, and we can turn that into
furniture with a company such as Flakeboard, then, yes, this government should be jumping. It
should be jumping a mile high.
My question to the Premier is this: The Deputy Minister of Natural Resources and Energy, in talking
to community leaders, informed them that it was an issue of wood supply. Can the Premier inform
the House today how much wood his government has exported out of the province since October
14, 2004? These are orders-in-council that you review and you approve. Can you tell us how much
wood has left the province?
Hon. Mr. Lord: This is a very good approach for the Leader of the Opposition. He wants to create
a perception that is incorrect. It is not the first time, and unfortunately, I know that it will not be the
last time. Clearly, the Leader of the Opposition does not have all the facts of this file. The opposition
may say: Let’s jump at every situation. Let’s jump at Goodison Textiles. Let’s jump at the projects
that the Liberals used to jump at where millions of tax dollars went, for no purpose. We will
continue to work with businesses that want to grow in New Brunswick. We have put in place a total
development strategy for natural resources. We will continue to invest in that strategy, and we will
continue to increase jobs in the province.
I will note that the members of the opposition are saying one thing today that is very different from
what they were saying six months ago.
Mr. S. Graham: Today, I am holding in my hand all the orders-in-council this government has
approved since October 14, 2004, which have allowed over 712 000 m of 3 wood to be exported from
the province of New Brunswick into the state of Maine or into the province of Quebec.
015 11:05
Clearly, a company such as Flakeboard, in talking to community leaders in that region of the
province, can create jobs from this low-grade wood product, from sawdust and shavings. What I am
asking the Premier today is this: We are exporting unprocessed roundwood, and it is going to get
worse when UPM-Kymmene closes for a three-month period. What we have to find are
opportunities. Yes, if this means the government jumping at opportunities to create value-added
jobs, we welcome that action.
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My question to you this morning, Mr. Premier, is this, because you have not answered a question
yet: What is the status of the Flakeboard project in St. Stephen?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I have answered the questions. The Leader of the Opposition may not be satisfied
with the answers, but I have answered the questions. Again, in his questions, the Leader of the
Opposition is saying things that are incorrect. When he says that we are exporting roundwood, it is
not true, and he needs to get his facts straight. The fact is, before every order was approved . . .
(Interjections.)
Hon. Mr. Lord: I know the members of the opposition do not want to know that their leader is
wrong, but it is about time they stopped following the blind.
Before every order was approved, this wood was offered to anyone in New Brunswick who wanted
it, and no one accepted it. That is why it was allowed to be exported.
Mr. S. Graham: Very clearly, today, the Premier is having a problem adjusting to how complex the
forestry file is. Pulp-grade wood can be put in the form of chips. It can be put in the form of
roundwood when it is exported. Trainloads of wood have left the province. Leroy, you have trucked
wood out of the province—pulp-grade quality. If the Premier needs a lesson, we will educate him
on how the system works.
This is my question to the Premier today. He is saying that wood has to be exported because we
cannot find a home for it. I can tell you today that a company such as Flakeboard can create valueadded
projects, and a Liberal government is going to support projects such as that.
Hon. Mr. Lord: Again, the arrogance of the Leader of the Opposition is amazing.
(Interjections.)
Hon. Mr. Lord: Yes, you are right, there are more personal attacks coming from the opposition.
That is all they can bring in here. Clearly, the Leader of the Opposition does not have all the facts
of what the company is asking for. It just shows that they are willing to say yes to anything that
looks good on the surface, without looking at the details. They are reckless and irresponsible in their
approach. That is why the results that we get from a responsible, consistent approach are far better
than the reckless, irresponsible approach of the Liberals.
Employment
Mr. Foran: I will direct my question this morning to the Minister of Training and Employment
Development. In the past, the minister and the government have made a very big deal of their
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repatriation programs, yet there was no mention of this in the throne speech. Could the minister
please advise this House as to whether repatriation is a priority of this government?
Hon. Mrs. Blaney: There is so much good news happening in this province that it is absolutely
impossible to put it all in the throne speech. We have had some very good success with our
repatriation program. In fact, we had targeted 300 New Brunswickers to come home over a threeyear
period. In fact, we have not even hit the three-year mark, and we are already at over 700 New
Brunswickers of whom we are aware. That is very good news.
Mr. Foran: Isn’t that great news. I find the minister’s comments very interesting, because on
November 29, in the Miramichi Leader, her colleague, the member for Miramichi-Bay du Vin, said
that we should establish a trade school in Miramichi to train people for jobs in Alberta.
016 11:10
This is the full-time MLA, not a part-time MLA, who wants to send people out West. He even went
so far as to say that they could drop their résumés off at his office. He also went so far as to say—get
this, and listen carefully—that they could e-mail < albertajobs@brainhunter.com. > Could the
minister confirm whether it is the position of this government to establish a training school for jobs
out West, or just the position of your full-time MLA?
Hon. Mrs. Blaney: It never ceases to amaze me. To the opposition members, the glass is always
half empty. That is the way that they approach everything: The glass is always half empty. We have
very good success in training our New Brunswickers in our community college network. In fact,
yesterday, there was criticism leveled at the fact that the opposition wants to train 2 800 new people
next year. Do you know what? We are on a very clear path with our community college network,
with over 90% of our graduates working as a result of the training that they received in our
community college network. We are on a very clear path. The opposition is so far in the woods that
it has to come out to hunt. We have a very good story to tell in New Brunswick, and we have
made . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Foran: I find it interesting again that we are talking about a clear path. Is it the clear path of the
Trans-Canada Highway going out west? We need to focus on creating job opportunities like the
metal fabrication operation proposed by Rob Tozer of Brun-Way that would have created
thousands—or at least hundreds—of jobs at home, especially in the Miramichi area. However, the
government rejected that project, and those jobs went to Nova Scotia. The minister’s department
says that we fall short on opportunity. Industry says that we fall short on opportunity. Even the MLA
for Miramichi-Bay du Vin says that we fall short on opportunity and that he wants to send our young
people out west. When will the minister implement a plan for creating every training opportunity
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that the Prosperity Plan says that we need, so that we can keep our people in the Miramichi and in
New Brunswick, and not send them to Calgary, Alberta?
Hon. Mrs. Blaney: There you go with the negative story again. You do not want to hear or talk
about the good news in New Brunswick. You do not want to talk about all the good things that are
happening in New Brunswick. Yes, people have gone to other provinces to work. Do you know what
the advantage is for us in New Brunswick? When they come back, they have skill sets and very good
knowledge in their field of choice. You want to build a wall around New Brunswick and have
everybody stay, but we are part of Canada. We are very proud of who we are in New Brunswick and
who we are as New Brunswickers. You cannot stop people from leaving, but we welcome them
home, as well.
Sewage Treatment
Mr. Jamieson: This is a question for the Minister of the Environment and Local Government.
People in the Saint John area are sadly disappointed with the reaction of the newly minted Minister
of the Environment and Local Government. His explanation of what his government will do to stop
raw sewage from flowing into the harbour is unacceptable. The minister’s answer has been that this
problem is someone else’s fault. People expected a fresh change with this minister, but it is the same
answer that we get every time from this government. It is always someone else’s fault. It is the same
line that Stephen Harper and John Wallace are using in Saint John. There is a serious problem in the
city of Saint John, and you need to be willing to work with the city of Saint John to solve this
problem. You were ready, willing, and able during the by-election in Saint John to help the people
of Saint John solve this problem. Are you ready, willing, and able to help solve the problem now?
017 11:15
Hon. Mr. Holder: I do not know how much clearer we could have been the other day. I said that
we will sign a deal anytime, anyplace. The federal government cannot make announcements on the
way out of a news conference, where they are making other announcements. The fact of the matter
is that they have never confirmed to us that that $44 million is in place. They have never confirmed
that to me, nor to the Premier. That announcement, as I said to the media the other day, never
happened. At the end of the day, both I and this government want to be a part of this. We made that
very clear. All we need is for the federal government to sit down, talk, and negotiate with us.
Mr. Jamieson: Preventing raw sewage from flowing into Saint John harbour will take a concerted
effort on everyone’s part. Playing the blame game does not solve anything. The city of Saint John
and the province need to form a plan that involves extensive engineering: site plans for a sewage
treatment facility, and a comprehensive plan to divert the flow of raw sewage to that facility.
Planning and development is the responsibility of the city of Saint John and the province of New
Brunswick. The Department of the Environment and Local Government needs to be part of that
planning. Infrastructure is a plan that is put together and then applied for to the federal government.
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You need to put the plan in place, and then apply for the federal infrastructure planning. That is how
it works, if you do not know that. Get your plan in place. The people of Saint John want you to be
part of the plan, not the blame game. Get your plan.
Hon. Mr. Holder: I am not playing any blame game here. Our caucus and government have a great
track record when it comes to this issue. I am going to tell you something. We have spent millions
of dollars with a joint federal agreement to upgrade the Millidgeville treatment facility and to
redirect about 5 000 homes in the North End. We have been working on this project for some time,
and we are going to continue to work on it in the future. I am not going to take a backseat to an
opposition that, when it was in government, did nothing about this.
Mr. Jamieson: The problem here is that you have taken a backseat in the city of Saint John. About
six weeks before the by-election in Saint John, this government had no plans to do anything
regarding harbour cleanup. All of a sudden, you are going to be part of the plan. Well, be part of the
plan, Mr. Minister. Get into the plan. Help the city of Saint John to devise a plan. Do not simply
blame people for your not being part of the plan because the federal government has not put its
money forward. The federal government is there when you put a plan in place, and when you apply
for the money. You have to apply for it first. That is how infrastructure works. This minister is sadly
lacking in any planned direction for this province, to help the city of Saint John.
Hon. Mr. Holder: The fact of the matter is that we have been a part of this plan for a long time. My
predecessor sent a letter to John Godfrey last year, saying that we support this project and that we
want the federal government to step up to the plate. What did he write back? He said that “the
funding has been committed, and we are not in a position to consider Saint John’s proposal at this
time”. He reconfirmed that in a conversation with me a couple of weeks ago, and I can tell you that
I want something in writing. I want something that says that the federal government is on-side with
this. All I have is the Prime Minister, coming out of a news conference, saying it. I am going to tell
you something. Until I see something in writing, that cheque at harbour cleanup is going to be
marked NSF, just like the cheque for Point Lepreau.
Mr. Speaker: Order. Order.
Health Care Services
Mr. Kenny: This question is to the Minister of Health and Wellness. Last April, the minister
promised to establish two additional dialysis units in northern New Brunswick. Although it was
announced in last year’s budget, these units are not expected to be operational until next spring. At
the time of the announcement, the minister said that these new units will provide dialysis treatments
for medically stable patients as determined by a nephrologist. Bathurst already has a nephrologist,
but the satellites in Dalhousie and Tracadie-Sheila will be linked to Moncton, not Bathurst. My
question is: Why are you planning to increase the number of specialists in Moncton, when the
specialized services could be provided in the north?
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L’hon. E. Robichaud : C’est une bonne chose que le député de Bathurst pose la question parce qu’il
n’a certainement pas bien été informé. On a seulement un néphrologiste à Bathurst, alors qu’il y en
a cinq ou six à l’Hôpital Docteur Georges L. Dumont.
018 11:20
Les médecins de l’Hôpital Docteur Georges L. Dumont ont accepté de partager la garde avec ce
spécialiste de Bathurst. Il aurait été inhumain de demander à un médecin de couvrir 365 jours par
année, trois centres de néphrologie. Donc, grâce à la collaboration de l’Hôpital Docteur Georges L.
Dumont, on sera capable d’ouvrir des centres à Dalhousie et à Tracadie pour les populations du
Restigouche et de la Péninsule acadienne. Lorsque le centre de Bathurst aura d’autres
néphrologues — parce qu’on prévoit en recruter un deuxième dans l’année qui vient —, à ce
moment-là, plus de responsabilités seront prises en ce qui a trait à ces deux centres.
M. Kenny : Ma question supplémentaire est la suivante : en plus du spécialiste des reins qui
s’occupe déjà des gens de Bathurst, il y a un autre spécialiste qui a grandi dans la région et qui
terminera ses études ce printemps. Nous savons que les besoins pour les traitements de dialyse
augmentent d’environ 10 % par année. Nous savons aussi que les patients qui ont des maladies
rénales sont sujets à des complications et doivent être traités par un néphrologue.
Monsieur le ministre, vous avez enlevé beaucoup de services dans le nord de la province, mais vous
avez encore le pouvoir de changer cette tendance.
Ma question est la suivante : pourquoi voulez-vous forcer des patients du nord du Nouveau-
Brunswick et de la Péninsule acadienne à voyager jusqu’à Moncton, alors qu’ils pourraient recevoir
les soins à Bathurst. De plus, quand allez-vous vous engager à établir un centre de néphrologie à
Bathurst?
L’hon. E. Robichaud : Tout d’abord, on n’a pas enlevé de services dans le Nord, actuellement, on
en ajoute. Pour répondre à la question que pose justement le député, des unités satellites de dialyse
n’existent pas à Dalhousie ou à Tracadie-Sheila, car, il n’y a pas si longtemps, il n’y avait pas de
financement possible. Nous sommes en train de mettre le service sur pied, et, de nouveau, ce que
je veux que le député de Bathurst comprenne, c’est que, actuellement, on a un néphrologue à
Bathurst. Comme je l’ai dit tout à l’heure, avec seulement un médecin spécialiste, c’est impossible
de couvrir la garde, parce que s’il y avait une urgence, il faudrait qu’il couvre les patients de
Dalhousie ou de Tracadie-Sheila. Donc, on a établi une entente avec Moncton et le Nord, justement,
pour s’assurer que ces patients seront couverts. C’est aussi simple que cela, et je répète ce que j’ai
dit tout à l’heure : La région de Bathurst devrait recruter un deuxième néphrologue au cours de
l’année qui s’en vient. Donc, à ce moment, plus de responsabilités seront assumées par la région de
Bathurst. Lorsque le Nord me justifiera le nombre de spécialistes dans notre région, à ce moment-là,
je souhaite que cette couverte se fasse par les gens de chez nous.
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Mr. Kenny: There is a second person that Bathurst is trying to recruit right now, but, unfortunately,
Moncton is trying to attract that person to Moncton. Can the minister do the right thing and make
sure that he makes a centre of nephrology in Bathurst and make sure that we have the doctors there
to supply services for northern New Brunswick?
Hon. E. Robichaud: The MLA for Bathurst is asking a very interesting question. I hope that the
people in his caucus understand what this implies. I have been seeing this on and on. While the
opposition wants me to provide billing numbers free to everywhere that wants them, wherever they
want, this is not the way the system functions. You are right. We want to make sure that there are
billing numbers in some specific specialities that are reserved for specific regions because of the
lack of those specialities.
With respect to the question you are asking, there is a billing number right now that has been agreed
on for the Bathurst region in order to recruit another nephrologist. I surely hope that they can do it
in the future. Meanwhile, if there are needs anywhere else in New Brunswick, I will not penalize
other areas of New Brunswick because we have some difficulties in the north.
