Wednesday, May 31, 2006


Charles 04_07_05 057, originally uploaded by Oldmaison.

I just found this out a few minutes ago after Trevor Holder promised me a few months ago that he won't over rule the decision of le Comite Beaubassin not to built a gravel pit in Memramcook!

This racist Irving company should not be allowed in the Valley!!!!

Bigot Trevor Holder should be ashamed of himself!!!!! You just wait till I see this bigot face to face???

Why have a committee to represnt the people if the Bureaucrats over rules the people wishes?

I'm going to blog this issue till the end of time....

shame shame shame!!!!

I'm going to blog this a little more in details when I calm down a little!!!!



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Gasoline Prices
Mr. Lamrock: It is good to hear the member for Tantramar talk about a smooth ride, because my
questions concern gas prices this morning. I was surprised to hear the member admit that he is doing
such a lousy job of retention that his constituents are moving to Manitoba.
In the latest budget, the government reversed a seven-year-old policy against gas regulation. Now,
suddenly, the government is in favour of gas regulation. Many people were very concerned that this
was another back-of-a-napkin policy, written down, like no-frills auto insurance, with no real plan,
just to solve a short-term political crisis when the government thought an election was coming. The
fact that we are now on the eve of June and we still have not seen a plan or a bill has done nothing
to allay these concerns.
Gas prices matter. They are taking too much away from the budgets of working families, and they
are hurting the ability of rural people who do shift work to get to work.
My question for the Minister of Energy is this: She has had a chance to talk to the stakeholders. She
must know what she is going to do. She wrote this plan on the back of a napkin. Did she study it
enough to give one simple guarantee? Will the average price of a litre of gas next year be lower in
New Brunswick than it is in neighbouring jurisdictions? Is the minister now able to make that
guarantee to this House? Is she willing to stake her bill and her reputation on it?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: What happens with gas regulation is that you do not try to compete with
neighbouring jurisdictions. You try to ensure that there stability at home in the price at the pump to
the people, to the consumers. You also have to be sure that you are not putting restrictions in place
that will force some of the small retailers out of business. We are not going to be in a competition
with Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia with regard to gas pricing; that would be a gas war on
a larger scale. We are going to be putting stability into prices at the pumps.
Mr. Lamrock: I think the consumers of New Brunswick would be very surprised to hear the
minister say that she does not care whether gas prices are lower in New Brunswick than they are in
Nova Scotia or in Prince Edward Island. She may say there is no competition, but when working
people are pinching pennies, I think we are in a competition to give the consumer a break. If the
minister does not get that, we have a problem.
How could the minister say that stability alone is the goal? If you want stability alone, you can
regulate it at $1.50 per litre; it will be stable, but it will be a rip-off. That is the difference between
us. This minister wants us to stabilize the price and does not care if it is a rip-off. The Liberal Party
of New Brunswick wants lower and more stable prices. That is the difference.
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Now that we know the minister has thrown price out the window and does not care if New
Brunswickers pay less, let us see if she at least cares about making sure they are getting the fairest
possible price. Many people suggest that cracking down on predatory pricing, making sure that the
wholesaler is selling to the retailer at a fair price, is a key part of making sure that the final price to
the consumer is the fairest and lowest price for New Brunswickers. Will the upcoming legislation
actually contain some oversight of predatory pricing and wholesale pricing, or does the minister just
say that the price does not matter as long as we stabilize the rip-off?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I have never stood in this Legislature and said that I did not care about the price
of gas. We are seeing the member opposite trying to put words in my mouth. The thing I do not care
about is the garbage coming out of the mouth of the member opposite. I will take no lessons from
the member opposite with regard to words.
015 10:55
I have said, and we have always said, that the consumers at the pumps want stability in prices. To
say that we could set the price at $1.50 . . . Maybe the member opposite will volunteer to pay $1.50
for a litre of gas, but I do not think the rest of New Brunswickers will. I do care. I do not care for
what is coming out of his mouth.
Mr. Lamrock: It is bad enough that this government writes policy on the back of a napkin; it is even
worse when the minister has not even bothered to read the napkin. Invective is no substitute for
information. With her response to the very first question, what the minister said was that we are not
in a competition. She even said: For the information of the member opposite. So, for my
information, it does not matter if gas prices are higher in New Brunswick than they are in Nova
Scotia and Prince Edward Island. Not to put words in her mouth, except the ones she chooses to put
in her mouth, and she might want to choose them more wisely, but I believe her exact words were:
“We are not going to be in a competition.”
I ask her again, if she can just tone the invective down and hyperventilate a little less: Will the bill
contain provisions, to make sure the price from the wholesaler is fair to the retailer before she
regulates? Will she do that? Does she know yet? Does she know what her department is working
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I will tone it down. If the member opposite ever had the opportunity to talk to my
children, they would say: When mother raises her voice, that is not when you should be concerned,
it is when it gets soft.
So you see, I think what we are hearing today from the member opposite is what the Liberals would
be doing if they were in power. I feel that they think that $1.50 is a fair price for the consumers of
New Brunswick. We have not even had assurances from the Leader of the Opposition if they would
regulate the price of gas when in power. We hear a lot of verbiage, but no firm commitment. Now
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we hear that they would, at $1.50 per litre. We are going to ensure that the cost is realistic in
comparison to the price of a barrel of oil.
Mr. Lamrock: So far, what we have heard from the minister . . . I have to admit that no matter how
loud or how quiet the minister’s voice is, I am concerned any time this minister is in charge of a file.
What the minister has said is that it does not matter if the price of gas is higher in New Brunswick
than it is anywhere else. She said that as long as it is stable, she does not care if it $1.50. That is an
interesting quote from the minister. Now she does not know if she is even going to have . . .
Mr. Speaker: Minister of Public Safety, order please. I recognize the member for Fredericton-Fort
Mr. Lamrock: Now she does not know if her bill is going to contain anything to contain
wholesalers. Let’s see what the minister does know. One concern has been expressed by retailers
in border communities, if New Brunswick is a little different than other regulated markets. We have
three jurisdictions around us, including the state of Maine. In some markets, when the price goes
down in a regulated market, the retailers are unable to lower their prices to give consumers the best
possible opportunity.
I ask the minister: Has she consulted with retailers in border communities who are worried about
their ability to stay competitive if prices go down and the bureaucracy is too slow to let them drop
prices for their consumers? What will be in this legislation to protect jobs and consumers in the
border communities of New Brunswick?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: The member opposite is still trying to say that I do not care. The only thing I have
said that I do not care about is the garbage coming forth from the opposition. You see, I have not
had an opportunity to speak with all the retailers in the province and deal with them all, because we
are in the Legislature. As you know, although this is a vitally important issue, we have not been able
to have pairing arrangements to go out and deal with these things. I have relied upon the staff of the
department to discuss these issues. I have also spoken to my colleagues at border communities. We
are looking at these things.
These are our concerns. We are trying to address the concerns. There are two ways that this can be
done in regard to legislation, as the member opposite knows. We can introduce a new piece of
legislation, or we can proclaim a piece that is currently on the books in regard to gas price
regulations. That has not yet been done. We are still pursuing this. We are trying to ensure that all
concerns are addressed.
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016 11:00
Under the legislation that we are proposing, it would be the Public Utilities Board that would do the
gas price regulations. If we write everything down in too heavy detail and make the legislation too
restrictive, then the Public Utilities Board would not be able to deal with emerging issues. We try
to ensure that the legislation will be flexible enough to allow the Public Utilities Board to meet these
Power Rebate
Mr. Burke: There is another example of policy on the fly by this government. Last week, the
Minister of Finance advised New Brunswickers to keep their heating bills because they may need
to provide them to get their tax refunds. Unfortunately, this is contrary to the at-source rebate
initiative that the Premier suggested would take place when the rebate program was announced.
Some homes heat with multiple sources, such as propane and natural gas, so some homeowners will
need to provide multiple receipts when the rebate program actually comes into effect. Can the
Minister of Finance tell the people of New Brunswick whether the program will be an at-source
rebate like the Premier promised, or a tax refund as he indicated to the media last week?
L’hon. M. Volpé : C’est une très bonne question à laquelle j’ai répondu à plusieurs reprises. Si le
député de Fredericton-Nord avait été à la Chambre, il aurait pu comprendre la réponse. La réponse
est facile : On veut donner le rabais de 8 % aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick. On a dit très
clairement qu’on allait trouver la façon la plus efficace, la plus économique et la plus rapide pour
donner accès à ce rabais de 8 % sur la taxe harmonisée. Dans certains cas, certaines personnes
utilisent plusieurs produits. Il y a des gens qui livrent le produit. Si on demande de donner le rabais
à la source, ces livreurs devront absorber les coûts. Il y a des négociations actuellement. Alors, c’est
très clair, c’était même dans les journaux. On va demander aux gens de conserver leurs reçus. On
l’a déjà fait pour le mazout, il y a déjà un système en place qui fonctionne très bien. En dedans de
quelques jours de la réception des reçus, les gens recevront leur chèque. Alors, on a un plan en place.
Si on peut trouver des façons plus rapides et plus efficaces, on va les mettre en place.
Mr. Burke: I know that the Minister of Finance commented about my being in the House. I
certainly do not need lessons from this minister about being in the House. What is important is
working for the people of New Brunswick, working for your riding, and working for your
constituents, not coming to this Legislature and listening to empty rhetoric by this minister. I hear
them over there heckling in their $2 000 suits and sports cars, and I need none of it.
I wish to read a news release dated March 27, 2006, issued by the Premier’s Office, on the very
subject matter that I asked about. I quote from the Premier’s own press release:
“We have heard the clear message from New Brunswickers that they need some assistance to meet
the ongoing challenges of energy costs,” Lord said. “I am very pleased with the package we have
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put together, and we believe that it will help enormously in providing much-needed relief to New
This program was supposed to be put in place on July 1, 2006, and it is yet to be put in place. My
first supplementary question to the Minister of Finance is this: When will this government ensure
that the ratepayers of the province of New Brunswick get the at-source rebate that this government
promised them?
L’hon. M. Volpé : Je semble avoir touché un point sensible. En français, on dit souvent que la vérité
choque. Cependant, je n’irai pas de ce coté-là. On a un plan qui est très clair. À partir du 1er juillet,
les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick pourront recevoir un crédit de 8 % sur la taxe harmonisée qu’ils
paient sur toutes les sources de chauffage au Nouveau-Brunswick, que ce soit le propane, le gaz
naturel, l’électricité, le mazout ou le bois de chauffage. S’ils ont payé la taxe harmonisée de 15 %,
la partie provinciale de 8 % sera remboursée. C’est très clair. À partir du 1er juillet, les gens
conserveront leurs reçus et auront droit à un rabais à deux reprises durant l’année. Ils pourront
demander un rabais en décembre, avant Noël, pour la période de juillet à la fin novembre. Ensuite,
ils pourront demander un rabais pour la période de décembre à la fin mars. À cette date, si on a
trouvé des façons plus rapides et plus efficaces avec des livreurs pour donner le service à la source,
on les mettra en place.
017 11:05
Mr. Burke: This is somewhat of a similar situation to the one we found ourselves in a few years
ago. This government likes to promise things for July 1, for some reason. I recall that, a few years
ago, on July 1, 2003, automobile insurance rates were supposed to come down. Now, on July 1,
2006, HST rebates are supposed to take place. Guess what? This government likes to promise
something one day and break that promise the very next day. It appears once again that Premier Lord
and his government are using NB Power as a political football by announcing programs that they
never intended to implement. Fortunately, the people of this province are going to realize that they
are going to take this government and punt it down the line at the 2007 election.
My final supplementary question for the Minister of Finance is this. Why did he have to wait until
last week, pressed in question period, to announce that the delay in the program was going to take
place when he had participated in the discussions about the rebate program in the first place?
L’hon. M. Volpé : Une fois de plus, si le député de Fredericton-Nord avait été à la Chambre, il
aurait reçu la même réponse qu’aujourd’hui — exactement la même réponse —, sauf que c’est
quelqu’un d’autre qui a posé la question.
En ce qui a trait à l’engagement du gouvernement provincial, celui-ci a été que, à partir du 1er juillet,
les gens qui vont payer 8 % sur des produits de chauffage vont recevoir le remboursement. Toutes
les promesses qui ont été faites par notre premier ministre ont été tenues, contrairement à l’ancien
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gouvernement. Je me souviens très bien que, en 1995, à la télévision de Radio-Canada, le premier
ministre McKenna et le ministre des Transports avaient annoncés qu’il n’y aurait pas de postes de
péage au Nouveau-Brunswick. Toutefois, en moins de six mois, il y avait des postes de péage. Je
me rappelle aussi d’un engagement qui avait été pris pour augmenter les montants d’argent pour les
collèges communautaires. Après les élections, l’ancien gouvernement libéral a réduit les fonds aux
collèges communautaires. L’ancien gouvernement avait aussi pris un engagement pour réduire les
impôts des particuliers, mais il les ont augmentés. Nous n’avons certainement pas de leçon à
recevoir de la part des parlementaires du côté de l’opposition.
Prescription Drugs
Mr. V. Boudreau: The official opposition has led the charge on issues relating to e-health, such as
the prescription drug monitoring program and electronic health records. We feel that the Lord
government is not moving fast enough, despite millions of dollars being made available by the
federal government through the Canada Health Infoway program. The Office of E-Health recently
made a presentation to the New Brunswick Medical Society regarding e-health projects. When
referring to prescription drug monitoring, it was stated through the society’s newsletter that Phase
1 will be a monitoring system for a limited group of drugs. We have talked about this for years, and
all this government can come up with in the way of progress is a Phase 1 project that is going to take
in a few drugs—no dates, no comprehensive plan, nothing. Can the Minister of Health provide this
House with a clear target date for when New Brunswickers can expect a fully operational, wideranging
prescription drug monitoring program?
Hon. Mr. Green: My response today is exactly the same as it was a few weeks ago when I was
asked the same question. We have work well under way on establishing a prescription drug
monitoring program here in New Brunswick. In terms of a timeline, our best-case scenario for the
implementation of a program is now at about 10 to 10 and a half months. At the outside, it is about
22 months. We are working with our stakeholders, in particular with the pharmacists in the province.
That work is going well. As is the case with every other commitment our government makes, this
one will be fulfilled.
Electronic Medical Records
Mr. V. Boudreau: The reason we keep asking the same questions is that we never get any answers.
When they talk about fulfilling initiatives and promises, this is another one: the electronic health
records that I mentioned earlier. This government has again dropped the ball on this issue, and we
now seem to have received third-party validation of our concerns. The most recent newsletter from
the New Brunswick Medical Society recapped the presentation from the Office of E-Health. When
talking about electronic health records, it stated that the current focus for the intraoperable electronic
health record “is the development of the capability for health care providers to access a consolidated
view of specific patient information generated by hospitals”.
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018 11:10
“View” is the key word because there is still no provincial game plan for the development of
interfaces between the hospitals’ information system and electronic medical records in physicians’
offices. In fact, there is no mention of EMRs in the current list of provincial e-health projects. In the
absence of a provincial plan addressing the issue of EMRs, individual regional health authorities,
to date, have been putting off requests from physicians to develop interfaces for their particular
EMR product.
Again, this is third-party validation. Why does the minister continue to insist that something is being
done on this issue, when it is clear by the bulletin put forward by the New Brunswick Medical
Society that it is not the case?
Hon. Mr. Green: We are making good progress on the development of electronic health records.
I had a discussion just yesterday with one of the individuals working with our department on this
specific project. He recently participated in a meeting with representatives of all regional health
authorities and the surgeons in the province, talking about the work that we are doing. An electronic
health record is a very large challenge for any government, but we are making good progress.
One element of an electronic health record is a diagnostic imaging archive. That is already well
under way. Another component is the prescription drug monitoring program. We have been talking
about that, and that is well under way. Work between the regional health authorities is well under
way. Once again, this is a very concrete example of the very positive progress that we are making
in New Brunswick as a result of our provincial health plan, Healthy Futures, and the $1.9-billion
investment that we are making this fiscal year in the health of New Brunswickers.
Mr. V. Boudreau: Based on the bulletin put out by the New Brunswick Medical Society, I do not
think that it seems to think that everything is well under way. These are just two more examples of
commitments made as part of the provincial health plan that are not being honoured. This minister
refuses to admit that there are flaws in this government’s health plan and that this plan is not
reaching all of its targets. We are halfway through a four-year health plan. Certain initiatives have
not yet even been acted on. I could on and name many more. Can the minister provide this House
with an updated and revised health plan before the end of this spring session?
Hon. Mr. Green: Virtually any time I am asked a question in this House on a health-related matter,
it touches upon the provincial health plan. In the three months since I have become Minister of
Health, I have been traveling throughout this province, meeting with stakeholders and participating
in announcements and initiatives directly related to the provincial health plan. I have talked about
one earlier today. That is the Smoke-free Places Act. That is part of the provincial health plan.
Recently, we opened the third cath lab in Saint John. That is part of the provincial health program.
Our recruitment and retention initiatives with physicians in the province had, last month, a net gain
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of 214 physicians over 1999. That is part of the provincial health program. That list of successes is
far longer than anything about which the member opposite can complain.
Publicité touristique
M. R. Boudreau : Le samedi 6 mai dernier, une publicité promotionnelle d’une pleine page a été
publiée dans le journal La Presse, de Montréal. Cette publicité avait comme objectif de vanter les
attraits touristiques de la province afin d’inciter les gens du Québec à venir visiter notre belle
province. Dans la publicité en question, on donne de l’information sur la région de Fredericton, le
Village historique de Kings Landing, les régions de Fundy et de Moncton, la ville de Miramichi
ainsi que Golf N.-B. Ma question pour la ministre du Tourisme et des Parcs est la suivante :
Pourquoi les régions au nord de la Miramichi ont-elles été exclues de cette publicité?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: I do not have that particular document in front of me, but I do know
that, in certain programs that are offered through the Department of Tourism and Parks, as part of
our marketing and advertizing campaign, the different regions of the province are invited to buy into
that program. I am not sure which one the member opposite is discussing or has put forth, but I
would be glad to look into that and find out if that was one, indeed, that would have to have a buy-in
from the municipality in question.
I am not sure, as I have said, because I do not have it in front of me today, but that is very often the
case. We offer to all of the areas of the province, as part of our marketing campaign, an opportunity
to buy into the program. That may be the reason why one particular area did not participate in that
M. R. Boudreau : Peu importe le programme, vous êtes la ministre et la personne responsable de
ce qui se passe dans votre ministère. Je vous demande pourquoi vous n’êtes pas intervenue afin de
vous assurer que chaque région de la province serait bien représentée. Pourquoi?
019 11:15
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: It is, indeed, a pleasure for me to rise and talk about tourism in the
province of New Brunswick and about the marketing campaigns that are ongoing from this year and
last year. We will continue to improve on these as the years go by. Each year, Tourism and Parks
implements and puts into place a marketing plan that involves extremely aggressive marketing. It
reaches not only the Ontario and Quebec markets, but also the French, European, northeast United
States and United Kingdom markets. We have been doing very, very well with our marketing
campaign. With regard to New Brunswick, all regions of the province are well represented. I believe
that we have a comprehensive marketing plan that covers every section of the province. Each section
is highlighted with the wonderful attractions that that section of New Brunswick has to offer.
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M. R. Boudreau : Madame la ministre, en 2005, le Nouveau-Brunswick a dépensé au total 1,8
million en publicité au Québec. En 2004, notre province a accueilli 1 760 000 visiteurs, dont 19 %
venaient du Québec. Étant donné que la région de Campbellton est l’une des deux portes d’entrée
pour les Québécois qui visitent le Nouveau-Brunswick, ne croyez-vous pas que cette région mérite
une attention particulière au même titre que la région du Madawaska?
Hon. Mrs. M Alpine-Stiles: As the member opposite ac knows, we had a slight discussion about this
in the estimates process. Yes, the Campbellton area is an extremely important area of the province,
as is each area of New Brunswick. We continue to work with the municipality and with the region
to promote that very important area of the province. It is a beautiful place to be; everyone knows
that. New Brunswick is blessed with beautiful scenery, wonderful industry, and wonderful people.
That is what makes us what we are. We have highlighted the different areas of the province. We will
continue to work with the Campbellton area to promote this very important area of New Brunswick,
as we do with every section within the tourism industry.
Plan provincial de la santé
M. Albert : Ma question est pour le ministre de la Santé. Le plan de santé annoncé par le
gouvernement le 3 mars 2004 pour la Péninsule acadienne n’a pas pris en considération les besoins
d’une population de plus de 50 000 personnes et d’une population rurale et éloignée. Avec le plan
de santé, le gouvernement Lord a éliminé des services essentiels si durement acquis pour la
Péninsule acadienne. À l’hôpital de Caraquet, il y a eu la perte des services de chirurgie et
d’anesthésie, des services obstétriques, d’accouchement et de pédiatrie, de son statut d’hôpital, il
y a eu la perte de tous les lits, de l’urgence 24 heures sur 24, de la cafétéria et de plus de 100
emplois. Une des raisons majeures de ces réductions était de faire des économies. Après deux ans
de fonctionnement, combien d’argent la Régie régionale de la santé 6 et le gouvernement ont-ils
Hon. Mr. Green: It comes as quite a surprise that after all the time that has passed, after all the
discussion that has taken place surrounding the Provincial Health Plan, the member opposite still
does not seem to grasp the reason for the Provincial Health Plan. It was not to save money. The
reason for the Provincial Health Plan was to invest more wisely in health care in the province. Our
spending on health care is increasing each and every year in this province. This year, $1.9 billion
was spent on health care and $2.46 billion was spent on senior care. The member opposite is
focusing on what he feels the hospital in Caraquet lost, instead of focusing on the new services
available to the people of the Acadian Peninsula, who have a community health centre in Caraquet.
That is a long list, and one that I have read on the floor of this House before.
M. Albert : Le plan de santé n’est pas juste pour ma région. L’ancien ministre de la Santé, Elvy
Robichaud, a dit que c’était pour atteindre les objectifs financiers. Voilà la raison. On réduit les
soins et le nombre d’emplois pour faire des économies dans une région qui en a tellement besoin,
c’est cela? La réalité avec ce plan de santé, c’est que, en 2004-2005, la régie 6 a eu un déficit de 2,5
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millions et que, en 2005-2006, elle a eu un déficit de 5,5 millions. C’est un déficit de plus de 8
millions. Pourtant, dans les rapports de la régie 6 et du gouvernement, on prévoyait des économies
de 4 millions, soit une différence de 12 millions. On réduit pour économiser et cela coûte plus cher?
Où est la logique? N’ont-ils pas un plan de vision? Pourquoi n’avez-vous pas atteint vos objectifs,
Monsieur le ministre? Qu’allez-vous faire pour corriger cette situation?
020 11:20
Hon. Mr. Green: On the one hand, the member opposite is suggesting that we have made cuts
trying to save money, and on the other hand, he is talking about deficits being run. Those two
concepts simply do not go together. Let’s talk about some of the investments we, as a government,
have made in northeastern New Brunswick as a result of the provincial health plan. Let’s talk about
the expansion currently under way at the Chaleur hospital in Bathurst. Let’s talk about the new MRI
machine servicing that region of the province and the two adjoining regions. Let’s talk about the
expansion taking place at the emergency room at the Tracadie hospital. Let’s talk about the new
satellite dialysis unit that is going to be serving the Acadian Peninsula this summer. The investments
that our government is making in health care on the Acadian Peninsula and in each and every other
region of this province are having a positive effect. We are going to continue implementing that
health plan, because that plan is working.
Special Needs Adults
Mr. Foran: The Miramichi Association for Community Living is an organization on the Miramichi
that is part of a provincial body. Mr. Speaker, this organization, as I am sure you are well aware, has
a program for 10 adult special needs people. Its funding is coming to a close in the next few days,
and it is going to have to close its doors. These people have been working with the four Miramichi
MLAs and have not had any progress to date. My question to the Minister of Family and
Community Services is this: Will funding be forthcoming before it closes its doors at the end of this
L’hon. Mme Dubé : Comme vous le savez, nous avons plusieurs programmes et plusieurs services
que nous améliorons toujours dans toute la province. Pour ce qui est du cas spécifique que le député
porte à mon attention ce matin, cela me fera plaisir de lui en reparler après avoir vérifié les faits.

My server is down!!!!

Charles 04_07_05 036, originally uploaded by Oldmaison.

I don't know the reason but I'm going to pay a visit to Fred E-zone. I can't blog or post new pictures.

The way the Frdericton Police Force are treating the poor? Maybe they cut me off? Who knows?

Stay tune!!!!


STV_0826, originally uploaded by Oldmaison.

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Mr. S. Graham: As this Assembly is aware, tomorrow the Premier and I will be attending an
important meeting with our provincial counterparts regarding the equalization formula for the
province of New Brunswick. This is an important debate that seems to have overtaken the
discussions in Gimli, Manitoba. I must say that, yesterday, I was very surprised to see federal
Finance Minister Flaherty state at the Toronto Board of Trade meeting that excluding natural
resources from equalization was part of the platform commitment made by his party in the last
federal election. He said: “We try to keep our commitments as a government. . . . We’ve got a pretty
good track record. . . . That’s our intention.” He said that excluding natural resources from
equalization “was a platform commitment”.
My question is for the Premier today. Now that the federal Finance Minister is stating that natural
resource revenue will not be included in the equalization formula, what concern does he share about
this statement?
Hon. Mr. Lord: The Finance Minister, in his budget, stated that the Prime Minister would have
negotiation sessions and dialogue with the Premiers. I intend to make the case to the Prime Minister.
I was aware, and still am aware, of what was included in the platform of the Conservative Party of
Canada, but I also know what was not included in the platform of the Liberal Party of Canada. There
was no recognition of the fiscal imbalance by the Liberals and no commitment to improve
equalization. At least the Conservative Party of Canada recognizes the fact that there is a fiscal
imbalance, and it does want to improve equalization. There is one point of contention: How do we
improve equalization? I firmly believe that to really improve equalization, we need to have a 10-
province standard and include all revenues, including revenues that are derived from royalties on
natural gas and oil. I believe that if that is not included, then it is a mistake, and it would not fully
fulfill the commitments and the obligations under the Constitution.
Mr. S. Graham: Again, it begs the question: What is the foundation of equalization? Why include
some revenues and not others? When we look at the fiscal capacity of this province and any other
province, I am glad the Premier and I share the same ideology, the fact that all natural resource
revenue has to be part of the fiscal capacity.
Yesterday, the federal Finance Minister prejudged the negotiation process that the Premier said he
is going to be embarking upon. Whether the federal Finance Minister was floating a trial balloon or
making a decision to back Premier Ralph Klein in his bid to have these resource revenues excluded
from the equalization formula, it is of great concern. I take the Premier at his word that he is going
to be undertaking a negotiation process with Prime Minister Harper, but clearly, prior to the
negotiation process starting, it does not help the process to have the federal Finance Minister out
there saying emphatically that it will not be included at this time. That is why I would like the
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Premier today to clearly articulate that he is not happy with the statements made by the federal
Finance Minister, and now the onus is on him and me together to work to change this position.
Hon. Mr. Lord: I have to state that, while I welcome the support of the opposition members on the
position that I have taken for quite some time, it is too bad they were not willing to take that position
when the Liberals were in office in Ottawa. I want to state that, regardless of whether there is a
Conservative government in Ottawa, a Liberal government in Ottawa, an NDP government, or any
other type of government in Ottawa, our position and our defense of the province of New Brunswick
will always remain strong and steadfast. That will continue. Our position will not depend on who
is sitting in the Prime Minister’s Office or who the Minister of Finance in Ottawa is.
I have stated our position very clearly: We should include all revenues and have a 10-province
average. The current average that we had under the previous Paul Martin, Jean Chrétien Liberals . . .
There was only a 5-province average, where all the revenues of Alberta were not included in the
calculation of the average. I thought that was wrong then, and I believe it is wrong now.
018 14:10
That is why I believe we need a 10-province average that includes Alberta, includes New
Brunswick, includes P.E.I., includes Nova Scotia, and includes Newfoundland. We should establish
the real average and bring everybody at least up to the average. We will not be brought up to the
Alberta level of fiscal capacity, but we should at least be brought up to the average. That is what we
are advocating.
Mr. S. Graham: May I remind the Premier that when a motion was adopted in this House in 2001,
it received all-party support at that time? It asked the federal government to move toward the 10-
province standard we are talking about today. Mr. Premier, you received our support at that time.
As well, the Finance Critic, in his reply to the budget speech, very clearly articulated our vision on
this side of the House of how the federal government—under Paul Martin at that time—should move
to a 10-province standard, including all resource revenues.
The question remains today, and it has not been answered, Mr. Premier. This is your Conservative
government in Ottawa today, and it is your federal Finance Minister who is saying very clearly that
he is siding with Ralph Klein versus the province of New Brunswick. My question to you, Mr.
Premier, is this: Why are you sitting silent on this issue, rather than striking out today to the federal
Finance Minister, stating clearly that our position in New Brunswick is that this position should be
adopted, versus the approach that Ralph Klein is taking?
Hon. Mr. Lord: First of all, I do not take ownership of Prime Ministers or Ministers of Finance.
They serve the country.
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I am far from silent on this issue. I have been giving interviews over the past 10 days on this topic,
ever since it came back. I have been giving interviews in New Brunswick and outside New
Brunswick, to the local media, the provincial media, and the national media. I do not think there is
any doubt anywhere as to the position of the government of New Brunswick or my position on this
file. Our position has been crystal clear, and I firmly believe the federal government cannot truly
equalize fiscal capacity if it does not include natural gas and oil revenues, because they are part of
what makes up fiscal capacity. The fiscal capacity of Alberta would not be what it is today if it were
not for the oil and gas revenues that the province collects. Everybody knows that. That is why it
needs to be included in the calculation.
At the same time, I think it needs to be said very clearly that the money that would be used to
supplement and improve an equalization program does not come from the government of Alberta.
It does not come from the government of Ontario. It does not come from the government of any
province. It comes from the taxes paid by citizens and businesses across this country.
Mr. S. Graham: The Premier is correct. That is the same argument we have used on this side of the
House—that equalization is, indeed, a federal program. To acquire the fiscal capacity to make the
program work properly, we are saying that all nonrenewable resources must be included.
I must say that I am concerned on two points. First, there is the fact that the Premier received a
letter, a copy of which was sent to Ralph Klein on January 13. Stephen Harper clearly stated in the
letter: We believe that a new equalization formula should exclude nonrenewable resources for all
provinces. That was signed by Hon. Stephen Harper, siding with the position of Ralph Klein. The
Premier has had a copy of this letter since January 13.
My question for the Premier today is this: You have met with Prime Minister Stephen Harper on a
number of occasions. What have you done to change his position, which was in a written letter to
Ralph Klein?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I think we need to state the facts correctly. The letter was sent to Ralph Klein as
the chair of the Council of the Federation, and it was a reply that was given to all Premiers, arising
from letters that we sent to all leaders of the four political parties during the campaign, to get their
positions on different issues. We obtained the position of the Leader of the Progressive Conservative
Party, who is now the Prime Minister of Canada. I have spoken to the Prime Minister on this file on
more than one occasion, and I am pleased to see that the Prime Minister has made a commitment
to negotiate with the Premiers.
I truly expect that the Minister of Finance, at this stage of the negotiations, will restate the position
that was stated in the platform. That does not mean I agree with that position, but it is still better
than the position of the Liberal Party of Canada, which was to not even acknowledge that there was
a fiscal imbalance. The federal Liberals did not even want to talk about any improvements to
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equalization, so we know that what we would have received from them would have been zero. At
this point, at least we are engaged in a negotiation process.
019 14:15
Our position is clear. The position of the government of New Brunswick has been supported by an
independent report for the Council of the Federation by a report given by the senate committee on
fiscal imbalance a few years ago. We are waiting for the federal government report. Our position
is clear and it is very firm. We need to include all the revenues in the calculation. Otherwise, we are
really not equalizing full fiscal capacity.
Mr. S. Graham: On that note, today I will be seeking support from the Premier. I will be
introducing a debatable motion, seconded by the member for Moncton North, on this very
fundamental debate we are having today. We will be asking for full participation and support of the
government members, so that our position in New Brunswick can be clearly articulated. We are
definitely singing from the same hymnbook today. That is a good sign that consensus can be reached
in this House.
The issue of concern we are raising is that yesterday, the federal Finance Minister clearly took a
position that was the opposite of the position of New Brunswick. That is why we have a
responsibility to raise it in this Chamber today, to make sure that our position is forcefully brought
forward at the federal level.
Hon. Mr. Lord: I believe that our position has been well represented in the last few years. That is
one of the reasons why we are making this progress. A few years ago, there was not a lot of
discussion about equalization. In fact, when the Liberals were still in office here in New Brunswick
and the Liberals were in office in Ottawa, they changed the funding formula for health care and the
Canadian social health transfer to a per capita funding arrangement. The Liberals in New Brunswick,
represented by the Liberal Premier at the time, agreed to this without getting the improvements of
equalization that were needed at the time. The reason we are still fighting for better equalization now
is because the Liberals failed at the task when they had the chance. I will not let that happen. I will
fight for a fair equalization formula that represents the needs and the aspirations of the people of
New Brunswick.
Inclusion scolaire
M C. Robichaud : Mes questions sont pour le ministre de l’Éducation. Hier, me r, suite à la conclusion
du forum sur l’inclusion scolaire, le ministre de l’Éducation a annoncé que la composition du comité
directeur ministériel sur l'inclusion scolaire sera étendue afin de permettre aux représentants des
parties prenantes de participer au processus. Le ministre peut-il nous dire quels nouveaux membres
seront ajoutés? Comment ont-ils été choisis?
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L’hon. M. Williams : Comme l’indique la députée d’en face, le forum des deux derniers jours a été
très positif. Au-delà de 200 personnes ont participé aux discussions, et de très bons points ont été
apportés. Je pense que les conclusions du forum sont parvenues à aider le ministère et le
gouvernement à préparer, comme on l’avait indiqué à plusieurs reprisse, un plan d’action qui aidera
certainement au niveau de l’inclusion scolaire au Nouveau-Brunswick.
J’ai aussi annoncé hier que le comité directeur ministériel élargira sa composition des membres
justement, pour y inclure nos partenaires, les différentes personnes qui y ont travaillé jusqu’à
maintenant. On veut les inclure dans le processus, dans les discussions et dans la mise en action de
notre plan qui sera finalisé très prochainement. En ce qui a trait à la proposition, il reste au comité
directeur ministériel à prendre la décision finale quant à ses membres.
M C. Robichaud : Alors, comme je vois, la réponse me ponse concernant les nouveaux membres et
l’étendue de la composition n’est pas tout à fait clair. Je n’ai pas reçu de réponse. Le ministre a
affirmé que l’objectif à court terme du comité directeur ministériel sera de déterminer ce qui doit
être fait d’ici le mois de septembre. Le ministre a mis de côté 5 millions pour la prochaine année
scolaire. Si le comité recommande des actions en septembre qui nécessitent un plus grand montant
d’argent, le gouvernement est-il prêt à augmenter la somme accordée dans le budget à la mise en
place du rapport MacKay? Le comité a-t-il été ordonné qu’il devait se limiter à 5 millions ou bien
est-ce que ce sont les recommandations qui détermineront la somme d’argent que ce gouvernement
investira pour le rapport MacKay?
020 14:20
L’hon. M. Williams : Je pense que j’ai répondu à la première question de la députée. Le comité
ministériel va finaliser les différents intervenants qui vont s’ajouter au comité ministériel, et les
membres de ce comité vont se rencontrer très prochainement. Je suis certain que les personnes qui
vont s’ajouter au comité vont apporter une bonne contribution et aideront à nous assurer que
l’éducation incluse va se faire de façon positive.
Le plan d’action à court terme que va mettre en place le comité fait suite aux discussions des deux
derniers jours et aussi à toutes les discussions qu’il y a eu jusqu’à maintenant concernant les
recommandations du rapport MacKay. Le montant de 5 millions qui a été annoncé pour mettre de
l’avant l’éducation inclusive au Nouveau-Brunswick sera en place pour la prochaine année scolaire.
Mme C. Robichaud : Alors, le ministre s’est engagé à présenter un plan d’action à long terme cet
automne. Cela nous apportera à presque deux pleines années après l’initiation du rapport MacKay
qu’on a reçu au mois de février. Le ministre peut-il s’engager aujourd’hui à respecter des dates
butoirs très claires pour l’implantation du rapport? De plus, cela signifie-t-il que toutes les dates
butoirs recommandées par le rapport MacKay seront repoussées d’au moins six mois?
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L’hon. M. Williams : Je voudrais préciser que cela ne fait pas deux ans que l’on attend la mise en
application des recommandations. Je peux vous dire que le rapport nous a été remis officiellement
dans les deux langues officielles le 1 février. Aujourd’hui, nous avons en place un er comité
ministériel qui a tenu un forum de deux jours. Nous allons prendre les recommandations, suite aux
discussions, et nous allons établir les priorités. Je dois informer la députée ainsi que la Chambre que
l’approche va être faite en deux étapes, soit, premièrement, un plan d’action à court terme, qui va
justement s’assurer que le montant de 5 millions qui est place va l’être pour la prochaine année
scolaire. En ce qui a trait à la deuxième étape, le comité ministériel s’est donné comme mandat
d’établir un plan d’action à long terme qui sera mis en place cet automne.
Le gouvernement a investi de l’argent et nous faisons participer nos partenaires. Avec les
investissements qui ont été annoncés et les autres mesures qui sont déjà en place, telles que la
réduction maximale du nombre d’élèves, l’augmentation des enseignants dans les salles de classe,
il s’agit là d’actions concrètes. De plus, nous avons un montant de 5 millions qui sera investis
directement dans notre système d’éducation. Nous n’avons pas attendu deux ans ; on passe à
Child Care
Mr. Doherty: My question today is directed to the Minister of Family and Community Services.
Yesterday, at the meeting of the federal and provincial counterparts, Prime Minister Harper’s
Minister of Human Resources, Hon. Diane Finley, dug in her heels and refused the efforts of
provincial ministers responsible for child care to persuade the Harper government to abandon its illconceived
plan for creating child care spaces in the private sector in favour of transferring the
dollars directly to the provinces. My question is this: Would the minister inform the House of the
position she took on this issue during the federal/provincial meetings yesterday?
L’hon. Mme Dubé : Cela me plaisir de répondre à cette question et de rapporter à la Chambre
l’importance de la réunion que nous avons eue hier avec la ministre responsable des services de
garderie. C’était ma première réunion, alors j’ai eu l’occasion de rencontrer tous les enfants des
autres ministres. Pour ce qui est des investissements qui seront faits, je pense que le gouvernement
fédéral a encore été très ouvert. Qu’est-ce que la ministre a apporté? Le gouvernement fédéral veut
travailler davantage et plus étroitement avec les différentes provinces et avoir des consultations
bilatérales. La ministre fédérale cherchait davantage des moyens d’identifier des critères pour
s’assurer de développer des places supplémentaires dans les systèmes de garderies de la province.
021 14:25
Je dois rappeler que notre gouvernement a fait des investissements de 96 millions de dollars dans
notre système au Nouveau-Brunswick. Nous voyons d’un bon oeil d’autres investissements
provenant du gouvernement fédéral. Nous voyons aussi d’un bon oeil les investissements qu’il fait
directement auprès des parents. On sait que ceux-ci choisiront ce qui est de mieux pour les enfants.
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Éventuellement, c’est l’achat de services dans le réseau de garderies de la province. Nous allons
continuer à travailler…
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Doherty: My second question is also directed to the minister. During the discussion yesterday,
the honourable Minister Chambers, who is the minister responsible for child care in Ontario, was
quoted in a national newspaper as confirming that there was a solid front of provincial and territorial
ministers behind the plan to redirect the $250 million per year that the Harper government has
earmarked for tax breaks and grants to businesses. The question that I would like to ask the
honourable minister is: Can she relay to us the number of new day care centres in New Brunswick
that have applied for a license as a result of the Harper tax breaks and grants for businesses and
community groups?
L’hon. M Dubé : Puisque je représente le Nouveau-Brunswick, je peux vous me informer que, au
cours des dernières années, nous avons ajouté plus de 3 000 places dans les services de garde au
Nouveau-Brunswick. C’est grâce au premier ministre Bernard Lord qui, justement, a une vision pour
le Nouveau-Brunswick. En ce qui concerne le gouvernement fédéral, la ministre était très claire
qu’elle voulait davantage de consultations. D’une part, elle veut travailler avec les entreprises pour
examiner les possibilités de continuer à ajouter des places partout au Canada, incluant le Nouveau-
Brunswick. Elle veut aussi travailler très étroitement avec les différents organismes. De l’argent sera
disponible. Ce que nous voulons tous, de ce côté-ci de la Chambre, c’est certainement continuer à
développer les garderies existantes qui sont prêtes à faire des agrandissements. Nous voulons
développer davantage des services de garderie et nous voulons travailler avec tous nos partenaires
pour nous assurer de développer des services de garderie accessibles et de qualité, et cela, partout
dans la province.
Mr. Doherty: My last question to the honourable minister is: Will she explain how she plans to
provide quality infant care spaces to the working poor of New Brunswick?
L’hon. Mme Dubé : Cela me fait tellement plaisir de parler du système de garderies. Vous ne savez
pas à quel point j’accueille la question avec un petit peu d’humour. Il faut rappeler à l’Assemblée
législative que, sous le règne des Libéraux, les services de garderie avaient un pauvre montant de
1 million de dollars. À un moment donné, ils ont eu le culot, le culot, de retirer le financement. De
ce côté-ci de la Chambre, nous avons investi 96 millions de dollars. Nous donnons une formation
pour offrir des services de qualité. Nous ajoutons des places. Nous aidons davantage les parents qui
ont peut-être certains défis financiers à se procurer des services de qualité. Donc, je peux dire que,
de ce côté-ci de la Chambre, nous croyons dans nos services de garderie partout dans la province.
Nous croyons que nous pouvons en faire plus et nous en faisons plus. C’est pour cette raison que
nous investissons davantage.
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Tout récemment, nous avons eu le plaisir d’avoir une rencontre avec notre premier ministre qui a
tenu une table ronde avec tous nos services de garderie et tous ceux intéressés dans le
développement de la petite enfance. Je peux vous dire que cela a été extrêmement efficace. Il y a
eu de bons échanges. Un programme d’études est en train de se développer, qui sera disponible à
tous les services de garderie. C’est une approche par le jeu pour assurer le développement global des
enfants. Alors, je peux continuer…
Mr. Speaker: Time.
M. Ouellette : Le gouvernement du Manitoba vient de déclarer dans un communiqué de presse que
l’objectif fixé par la province d’attirer 10 000 nouveaux immigrants pourrait être atteint en 2006.
Il faut se rappeler que le Manitoba et le Nouveau-Brunswick ont commencé ensemble en 1998 le
programme de désignation. Nous sommes loins de pouvoir comparer nos résultats avec ceux du
022 14:30
Étant donné que le ministre de Madawaska-la-Vallée n’a pu répondre à mes questions il y a quelques
jours, pourrait-il nous dire s’il prévoit mettre en place le plan provincial sur l’immigration bientôt?
L’hon. M. Mockler : Merci beaucoup pour la question. C’est sûr et certain que la politique sur
l’immigration du Nouveau-Brunswick est en train d’être complétée et sera présentée à notre
gouvernement. Je peux vous assurer que la politique sur l’immigration du Nouveau-Brunswick sera
le flambeau du Nouveau-Brunswick. Si je compare ceci avec ce qu’avait le gouvernement précédent,
durant les cinq dernières années au pouvoir du gouvernement libéral, il n’y avait que deux candidats
pour le Programme des candidats du gouvernement. Aujourd’hui, je suis fier de dire que, sous notre
gouverne, nous avons dépassé les 800 candidats au Nouveau-Brunswick. En plus de cela, cela
correspond à 2 200 nouveaux immigrants au Nouveau-Brunswick. Les gens sont fiers d’accueillir
des immigrants chez nous, au Nouveau-Brunswick.
M. Ouellette : Je ne sais pas où le ministre prend ses données de cinq ans, parce que le Programme
des candidats a été mis sur pied seulement en 1998. Le gouvernement actuel est entré au pouvoir
en 1999. Alors, ce gouvernement est au pouvoir depuis sept ans. Encore là, on a sorti des
statistiques. J’ai mentionné la semaine dernière qu’on avait beaucoup de difficulté à retenir nos
immigrants. Au bout de trois ans après être arrivés dans la province, ils la quittent. Si le Manitoba
a pu augmenter son nombre d’immigrants, c’est précisément parce qu’il avait un plan provincial
avec des objectifs spécifiques. Si plus de 31 % des nouveaux venus, sont partis du Programme des
candidats et sont venus s’établir en dehors de Winnipeg, le ministre Mockler peut-il nous dire
combien de nouveaux venus au Nouveau-Brunswick se sont établis en dehors des grands centres
comme Moncton, Saint John et Fredericton?
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L’hon. M. Mockler : C’est une question qui est aussi pertinente et qui correspond à la première
question qui m’a été posée. Je voudrais vous dire que le gouvernement du Nouveau-Brunswick,
conjointement avec le gouvernement fédéral a créé, il y a approximativement un an le Carrefour
d’immigration rurale. C’est une première au Canada. Je peux vous assurer que le Manitoba, le
Québec et l’Ontario ainsi que toutes les provinces de l’est du Canada sont en train de regarder la
performance du Carrefour d’immigration rurale, qui est installé à St. Leonard, au Nouveau-
Brunswick, avec des satellites dans deux autres provinces. Je peux assurer au député d’en face que
nous allons continuer à travailler avec les associations multiculturelles du Nouveau-Brunswick pour
faire en sorte que le Nouveau-Brunswick soit une terre d’accueil pour les immigrants au Canada,
et surtout pour s’assurer que le Nouveau-Brunswick peut attirer des immigrants qui participeront
à la qualité de vie des gens du Nouveau-Brunswick, peu importe que ce soit à Fredericton, à
Moncton, à Saint John, ou n’importe où ailleurs au Nouveau-Brunswick.
M. Ouellette : Encore une fois, je suis d’accord que beaucoup d’efforts sont déployés par des
organismes provinciaux. On parle de la coalition Entreprise Fredericton, Entreprise Saint John et
Entreprise Moncton, le Carrefour d’immigration rurale, à St. Leonard, que vous avez mentionné,
ainsi que McCain Foods, à Florenceville, pour n’en nommer que quelques-uns. Encore une fois, je
reviens avec ma question. C’est tellement important d’avoir une stratégie provinciale afin de
coordonner tous ces efforts qui se font partout dans la province. Encore une fois, le ministre peut-il
nous confirmer quand — je veux une date fixe — une stratégie provinciale sera en place? Il ne sera
jamais trop tôt. Depuis 2002, on étudie et on regarde les possibilités. Je pense qu’il est temps d’avoir
une stratégie provinciale en place.
023 14:35
L’hon. M. Mockler : Il semblerait que les parlementaires du côté de l’opposition croient que
l’immigration n’est pas vivante au Nouveau-Brunswick.
I just want to say that we have a lot of success stories in New Brunswick when we look at
immigration. We have a plan, and it consists of working with the federal government and our New
Brunswick partners to enhance immigration.
I look at the success stories. Let us talk about the new multicultural associations, such as the
Multicultural Association of Carleton County. It is top-notch in all of Canada, and it is located in
Florenceville, New Brunswick. When I look at the international students, New Brunswick is doing
very, very well. When I look at the new Chinese newspaper in Saint John, which is working in
cooperation with the Immigration and Repatriation Secretariat, I say that is also a success story.
When I look at the PNB and both French and English New Brunswick communities, when I look
at our partners, NGOs, and when I look at the meeting I had personally with the minister in Ottawa,
who is willing to work with us . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
May 30, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 30 mai 2006
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Land Development
Mr. Murphy: My question is to the Minister of Environment. A few weeks ago, we had some
debate with regard to environmental destruction in Grand Barachois. At that time, the Premier and
minister after minister denied all the various allegations and statements that were made in the form
of an affidavit by Gilles LeBlanc. Last Friday, this matter went to court. Lo and behold, the
government did not file an affidavit to refute any of these allegations. We do not ask government’s
opinion as to the merit of the case. I just want to know, from the Minister of Environment, who is
responsible, in large part, for the destruction that happened over there—or his predecessor is
responsible—which was apparently under the approval or direction of the Premier’s and minister’s
political aides . . . I want to know why this minister did not send someone down with an affidavit
to refute these allegations? Why?
Hon. Mr. Holder: I have no intention of speaking about something that is before the courts. The
member opposite knows that full well.


STA_3568, originally uploaded by Oldmaison.

( ROMANS 4:7-8 *NKJV )

Dear Charles,
The Apostle Paul once said; "FOR WHAT I DO IS NOT THE
( ROMANS 7:19 & 24 ) After all, to remain sinless was a struggle
for him, as well as, the rest of the Apostle's! For sin has always
been a struggle for mankind ever since the days of Adam and Eve!

Therefore when we slip and sin it is very important to ask our
Heavenly Father to forgive us. For it is written; IF WE CONFESS
( 1 JOHN 1:9 ) Thus we become cleansed and forgiven from our
past sins, and that includes all of them!

After all it is written; "COME NOW, LET US REASON

So Charles, just be the very best person that you can be, and
if you slip and sin once in a while, do not think that God doesn't
love you anymore. For no one is perfect, however once there
was One, sinless and blameless, and filled with love, and they
Crucified Him.....

With My Love & Prayers,
your servant Allen
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