I knew this was going to happen. Maybe it's a good thing I stayed home.
Does anyone out there know the story behind the scenes????
23 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I'm saddened, I really thought this one was going to go peacefully. Kudos to those who protested peacefully, you have my respect; keep up what you believe in.
Nobody asked or cares about your sympathy, especially when its an opinion that comes before any facts. Police are well known to stir up trouble themselves, and they often plant undercover officers among protestors. I doubt any protestors had weapons, so there is certainly no cause to hospitalize somebody even if they were rambunctious. We even have a precedence, maybe Charles can retell his story about how out of line he was when he was assaulted and jailed for taking pictures.
It is certainly a travesty that the only press so far that this protest has been getting has been bad. Even the CBC's editing of various protestors' soundbytes makes them out to be violent juvenile delinquents.
Meanwhile, in Irving's Saint John "news"paper, the so-called benefits of the "trade bloc initiative" are touted on nearly every page of both the front and business sections, again with those in opposition being quoted and portrayed as irrational obstructionists. It would seem that this is the Saint John Pipeline battle all over again. Control the media and you control the people.
In the midst of all this though, it is certainly refreshing to see the quality of the local citizen journalism community, even if it is a bit limited in size. Keep on writing against the establishment! Your efforts are not in vain.
The national newspapers have some decent coverage. One thing you can notice is the good press comes from those inside the meeting. Scott Sinclair, from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives was there and had a debate with the President of AIMS who was reduced by the end of it to saying "globalization is coming and there's nothing you can do about it, nyah nyah nyah". This was reported in the Globe and Mail. Of course Irvings press and Halifax will preach it, since they will be the big winners.
Its no surprise that there was such a falling out. These are angry kids and who can blame them. They face the choice of mcjobs, massive student loans, or moving away. Meanwhile, ACOA announces they will spend half a million dollars to 'set up an Atlantica group'. Thats the feds for you, no money for economic development, but half a million to help Irving and friends lobby for more taxpayer funding. And people thought Stephen Harper wasn't a Liberal.
When all else fails and you no longer can come up with any real excuse for the actions of certain protesters you can always state "These are angry kids and who can blame them". Isn't that really just as superficial and inadequate an explaination to what is really happening as suggesting the President of AIMS actually says "nyah nyah nyah"?
Kudos and respect to all those who fought hard yesterday.
You may say they are cowards, or dumb kids, but if atlantica becomes a reality and damages the people the way NAFTA damaged Mexico (despite promises of prosperity for poor Mexicans), people may begin to see that these "dumb kids" were fighting for their lives, their futures and the futures of all who live in "The Atlantic Gateway"
Jail Solidarity will continue this week. If anyone is in Halifax, I hope to see you out there.
Charles asked what happened. Maybe rather than everyone climbing onto soap boxes, someone could actually say what happened. I've been at a few demonstrations where the guys in the black shirts and bandanas show up and you know there will be trouble because violence is their game. Just makes it bad for the rest of us who really do want to express an opinion that is not rooted in violence.
honestly, whether they are 'dumb kids' or whatever, i watched the tv and I did not ask anyone to throw paint on buildings or throw objects at police officers on my behalf. they're not getting any message across. i dont know what their message is.
First off Charles, I wanted to apologize on behalf of the fredericton protest oil-burning van of people that promised you a ride up to Halifax (to take pictures) and a room to stay in, for breaking their promise. That you can't trust the corporate media to tell the story straight does not mean that you can trust a fredericton activist.
The "violent" protests were not "violent". Windows and cars were targets because they symbolized the reasons for our poverty. The actions gave people something to think about: these people were willing to be put in jail to make life easier for the rest of the people on the east coast. I know most of these people personally and they among the most warm-hearted people on the planet. Before leaving to protest with the black clothed activists you'd see hugs offered up, support networks built, kisses blown, and tears of happiness. This is not a battle of "good" versus "evil" -- these are real people with real ideas.
The community that was formed in halifax over the last two or three days prefigures the type of society that ought to replace the current (and the proposed/Atlantica) society. It is a society built on mutual respect, mutual aid, respect for diversity, solidarity, and above all else, a strong desire to eliminate those aspects of life that drain desire, creativity, and most of all our very life, from us.
These are real heros because they choose not to be heros -- they are anonymous. These are the type of people who deserve ribbons tied around trees.
Why I can hardly wait. Just think, a new society of mask wearing miscreants that see nothing wrong with defacing and destroying public and private property when ever they happen not to like what others have to say. Yes that is surely a society built on mutual respect, mutual aid and respect for diversity. That is of course as long as its on their terms. History has proven time and time again that those so willing to destroy anything to get what they want are more than willing to do worse to keep it. How again does that make you any better than what we have now? At least they don't hide behind masks. Real ideas indeed, there isn't a collective innovative thought in lot of you. Your nothing new and your far from being hero's.
The masks were to make them anonymous, to hide their identity from police, and to reflect the blackness that is society today.
Property damage is nothing. Property does not bleed, people do (when they are suffering from disease caused by poverty).
Property is a part of the problem, and for that we do not respect property. As Proudhon said many many years ago: Property is theft!
A rock thrown into a window is nothing: the bank can afford to have that window fixed and even after that give 6 billion dollars to feed the homeless of halifax: they refuse to.
Whenever I see a black mask, I know that I am safe.
You should do some research on this group and find out what it is all about before you assume that they are naturally evil satan-kids.
You'd never know, one of those activists might have been your friend, brother, father, mother, ..
dr - what heroism is there in destroying someone else's property? Someone who left their car parked on the street may have gotten paint on it - that is not the sign of a caring person - that's the sign of a person who doesn't care. Same with the building - by doing damage to private property - all these people do is show themselves to be hooligans and we have enough of those in the world as it is.
11:33-Wrong.Check the Webster definition-it definitely does not include just humans.Furthermore, violence can be sociological,criminal,injurious,medical,and domestic.Enough said.
Just Passing: How arrogant of you to presume the arrogance of another. Some of those masked "kids" have Ph.D's and teach your children. Others know all to well the real struggle that private (AND public) property provides: they are homeless.
Homeless or not, they could debate you in political or sociological theory without much effort. Their theory comes from real life experience, something you-- with your "hard-earned" computer property will never understand.
These people are not ignorant. Though most of them were starving, they were willing to give me their last two bucks in case I needed a bus at the protest. These are the type of people that would be locked up for life, starve to death, or anything else ("live simply so that others may simply live") just so you can have a little bit more of a say at your place of employment or anywhere else.
It's so easy though, isn't it? To throw out random words like "non-constructive", "ignorant", "oppositional", "evil", or whatever else without any real basis other than assumption. Like all things, if you actually wanted to look a little closer, you'd see things you didn't actually want to.
Oh my poor little dr, its not arrogance at all. I know you and your kind all to well. You shout and you blame. You point fingers and spend countless hours sitting with your little group justifying you own inexcusable actions. You profess to have the answers and as usual you have nothing. Angry little people leading angry little lives. It's sad enough that you actually help no one, sadder still you seem not to know the difference. If you actually took the time and looked closely at your own actions you would soon see you only exist to stroke your own ego. It is such a waste. You could do so much more. But that would mean being responsible something you know little about.
The arrogance is in your own words. You can't even see the difference between education and intelligence. So an "educated" man can through rocks and paint at police. They can deface public property and justify it by suggesting they are only "symbols" of the oppressors.. Is that your debate? Is that how you discuss political or sociological theory these days? Surely not the actions of an intelligent man of that I am certain. Intelligence does not come exclusively from education, a point made abundantly clear by your little band of "PhD's and friends.
You have rambled on in this place endlessly making nothing but excuses for your actions and what have you accomplished? How has pulling a balaclava over your head and lobbing paint in the streets helped the poor this week? Are they sleeping easier at night knowing masked PhD's are now destroying property? Are their stomachs fuller now that you received your much prized media coverage? Will they be filled with hope as our own little troop of miscreants drift back to town only to relive their exciting escapades on the campus radio station? Are you actually so blind as to think your actions even helped? You suggest that its easy to label you and your actions. Well the truth is... it is, but only because you make it so.
You say that we shout and blame and point fingers -- but is that not what you are doing here on this blog today, and what you have been doing. Nobody alive together is innocent of this. So move on to a different approach.
You say that we help nobody and yet, I witnessed first hand the poorest of people come together and feed each other selflessly; but not just themselves they fed, for free, anybody who wanted or needed food. When was the last time you cooked, for yourself, something for somebody who couldn't afford to eat?
You talk of ego's as if it is only us who have them. The fact us the entire world is full of ego's, some of them dominate the will of other ego's and some allow other ego's their space to live in freedom. Your ego dominates.
If I was a mirror you'd see how meaningless/ful your words really word. Especially this sentence: "It is such a waste. You could do so much more. But that would mean being responsible something you know little about." Take your own advice.
If intelligence doesn't come from education, you must mean it comes from some transcendental realm; from a natural impulse perhaps? Who knows, maybe god? Whatever it is, it's bullshit. You conveniently ignore the actions of the police, and the silent violence that all the targets have waged for so many years on the poor. These are companies and people who are set on perpetuating their own richness, power, and domination. These are people/corporations that care only to maximize their own power at the expense of real people. If I can throw a rock at my (or your) oppressor's window, I'll gladly do it. One window can be replaced. The little boy who nearly died from the tazer of the cop this past weekend, could never be replaced. I watched as he shivered and turned blue; his physical motor abilities were wiped away. All he could do was blink. The cops pinned him to the ground, one or two concerned (maybe cause they realized how much trouble that they were in) others sat on top of him. This was a boy no older than 17 years. His only crime was wearing a black mask, and maybe throwing a paint ball at a multi-billion dollar bank that kills people daily all over the world. You see a broken window -- I see thousands dead. Which is the real violence?
The fact that you claim that there is a distinction between education and intelligence is funny to me; clearly the two are relative concepts. Your understanding of so-called "intelligence" (which you obviously claim to have, if you can spot who *doesn't* have it) certainly does match up with my understanding. You, my friend, are nothing but a stupid complacent pig.
You want to talk theory? Define violence. Compare and contrast the violence. Who had the "weapons"? The police, the corporations, the media, or the protesters? Which were more powerful weapons? Who was on the losing end? Who is most affected by it all? These are the questions you should be asking. We should never take the conservative position and assume that authority is right all of the time.
How has wearing a bandana over another persons face, and throwing paint onto big corporate buildings, help the poor? It sends a message to everybody that there are people who are willing to take a stand; not in politics (because we all know where that brings us), not in communication (because, with you as a case in point, most people don't want to communicate), and not as a hero (because heros end up becoming oppressors).
If you had no property and you knew that there were people out there trying to rid the world of property -- yes, you'd sleep a little easier knowing that you weren't alone.
Just Passing, your problem is that you are always "Just Passing" in life; you take your freedoms for granted, you don't try to get any more, and you don't stand for anything. You'd like to take the easy way in life; get a credit card, sit on your computer all day, while thousands of people will never in their lifetime have that privilege. As long as people like you are "Just Passing" through life, I'll be in the streets.
Actually "Just Passing", I remember watching all the protesters shout and scream at the media for recording them. None of them actually wanted the media there. They screamed "get the **ck out of here corporate scum", among other things.
Also, I have never been a part of campus radio, nor will I ever. If you ask me, that approach is pure bs.
Strawpersons. That's what the media uses, that's what AIMS uses, and that's what you use.
I think its important as this particular page slowly makes it's way to the archives to take a moment and really thank those selfless individuals that work tirelessly day after day, week after week helping the less fortunate of this city. While dropping off groceries at the food bank, contributing cash donations when asked and volunteering occasionally do of course help we really know we could be doing and giving so much more. We may not all be able to work as hard as some, but we can all give more of our time and our money to help those in need and to support those that work so hard caring for them. Even dr and those like him deserve our thanks. Were it not for their misguided and spurious actions we might have been in danger of becoming complacent and forgetting about those out there that REALLY are concerned about poverty and homelessness. So lets just all be thankful the dr's of the world are few and far between and lets all do a little more for those that truly matter. Those that don't find it necessary to hide behind a mask when professing to be working for those in need.
23 comments:
I'm saddened, I really thought this one was going to go peacefully. Kudos to those who protested peacefully, you have my respect; keep up what you believe in.
It's too bad some people always have to stir the ire of the police up so we end up with the cliché police vs. protesters ending. I have no sympathy for people who take a stick to a hornet's nest and then whine about how they got stung.
Cover your face in a mask, you're begging for trouble. A peaceful protest is fine. This wasn't it.
...and you should check into a mental health facility before it is too late.
Nobody asked or cares about your sympathy, especially when its an opinion that comes before any facts. Police are well known to stir up trouble themselves, and they often plant undercover officers among protestors. I doubt any protestors had weapons, so there is certainly no cause to hospitalize somebody even if they were rambunctious. We even have a precedence, maybe Charles can retell his story about how out of line he was when he was assaulted and jailed for taking pictures.
It is certainly a travesty that the only press so far that this protest has been getting has been bad. Even the CBC's editing of various protestors' soundbytes makes them out to be violent juvenile delinquents.
Meanwhile, in Irving's Saint John "news"paper, the so-called benefits of the "trade bloc initiative" are touted on nearly every page of both the front and business sections, again with those in opposition being quoted and portrayed as irrational obstructionists. It would seem that this is the Saint John Pipeline battle all over again. Control the media and you control the people.
In the midst of all this though, it is certainly refreshing to see the quality of the local citizen journalism community, even if it is a bit limited in size. Keep on writing against the establishment! Your efforts are not in vain.
The national newspapers have some decent coverage. One thing you can notice is the good press comes from those inside the meeting. Scott Sinclair, from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives was there and had a debate with the President of AIMS who was reduced by the end of it to saying "globalization is coming and there's nothing you can do about it, nyah nyah nyah". This was reported in the Globe and Mail. Of course Irvings press and Halifax will preach it, since they will be the big winners.
Its no surprise that there was such a falling out. These are angry kids and who can blame them. They face the choice of mcjobs, massive student loans, or moving away. Meanwhile, ACOA announces they will spend half a million dollars to 'set up an Atlantica group'. Thats the feds for you, no money for economic development, but half a million to help Irving and friends lobby for more taxpayer funding. And people thought Stephen Harper wasn't a Liberal.
When all else fails and you no longer can come up with any real excuse for the actions of certain protesters you can always state "These are angry kids and who can blame them". Isn't that really just as superficial and inadequate an explaination to what is really happening as suggesting the President of AIMS actually says "nyah nyah nyah"?
Kudos and respect to all those who fought hard yesterday.
You may say they are cowards, or dumb kids, but if atlantica becomes a reality and damages the people the way NAFTA damaged Mexico (despite promises of prosperity for poor Mexicans), people may begin to see that these "dumb kids" were fighting for their lives, their futures and the futures of all who live in "The Atlantic Gateway"
Jail Solidarity will continue this week. If anyone is in Halifax, I hope to see you out there.
Charles asked what happened. Maybe rather than everyone climbing onto soap boxes, someone could actually say what happened. I've been at a few demonstrations where the guys in the black shirts and bandanas show up and you know there will be trouble because violence is their game. Just makes it bad for the rest of us who really do want to express an opinion that is not rooted in violence.
honestly, whether they are 'dumb kids' or whatever, i watched the tv and I did not ask anyone to throw paint on buildings or throw objects at police officers on my behalf. they're not getting any message across. i dont know what their message is.
1st, it will, because that's what all free trade proposals have done in the past. Do you think that the irvings have your best interest in mind?
2nd, I was there, so I guess that settles that.
It settles nothing.Violence settles nothing.
First off Charles, I wanted to apologize on behalf of the fredericton protest oil-burning van of people that promised you a ride up to Halifax (to take pictures) and a room to stay in, for breaking their promise. That you can't trust the corporate media to tell the story straight does not mean that you can trust a fredericton activist.
The "violent" protests were not "violent". Windows and cars were targets because they symbolized the reasons for our poverty. The actions gave people something to think about: these people were willing to be put in jail to make life easier for the rest of the people on the east coast. I know most of these people personally and they among the most warm-hearted people on the planet. Before leaving to protest with the black clothed activists you'd see hugs offered up, support networks built, kisses blown, and tears of happiness. This is not a battle of "good" versus "evil" -- these are real people with real ideas.
The community that was formed in halifax over the last two or three days prefigures the type of society that ought to replace the current (and the proposed/Atlantica) society. It is a society built on mutual respect, mutual aid, respect for diversity, solidarity, and above all else, a strong desire to eliminate those aspects of life that drain desire, creativity, and most of all our very life, from us.
These are real heros because they choose not to be heros -- they are anonymous. These are the type of people who deserve ribbons tied around trees.
-dr
Why I can hardly wait. Just think, a new society of mask wearing miscreants that see nothing wrong with defacing and destroying public and private property when ever they happen not to like what others have to say. Yes that is surely a society built on mutual respect, mutual aid and respect for diversity. That is of course as long as its on their terms. History has proven time and time again that those so willing to destroy anything to get what they want are more than willing to do worse to keep it. How again does that make you any better than what we have now? At least they don't hide behind masks. Real ideas indeed, there isn't a collective innovative thought in lot of you. Your nothing new and your far from being hero's.
The masks were to make them anonymous, to hide their identity from police, and to reflect the blackness that is society today.
Property damage is nothing. Property does not bleed, people do (when they are suffering from disease caused by poverty).
Property is a part of the problem, and for that we do not respect property. As Proudhon said many many years ago: Property is theft!
A rock thrown into a window is nothing: the bank can afford to have that window fixed and even after that give 6 billion dollars to feed the homeless of halifax: they refuse to.
Whenever I see a black mask, I know that I am safe.
You should do some research on this group and find out what it is all about before you assume that they are naturally evil satan-kids.
You'd never know, one of those activists might have been your friend, brother, father, mother, ..
-dr
dr - what heroism is there in destroying someone else's property? Someone who left their car parked on the street may have gotten paint on it - that is not the sign of a caring person - that's the sign of a person who doesn't care. Same with the building - by doing damage to private property - all these people do is show themselves to be hooligans and we have enough of those in the world as it is.
11:33-Wrong.Check the Webster definition-it definitely does not include just humans.Furthermore, violence can be sociological,criminal,injurious,medical,and domestic.Enough said.
Just Passing: How arrogant of you to presume the arrogance of another. Some of those masked "kids" have Ph.D's and teach your children. Others know all to well the real struggle that private (AND public) property provides: they are homeless.
Homeless or not, they could debate you in political or sociological theory without much effort. Their theory comes from real life experience, something you-- with your "hard-earned" computer property will never understand.
These people are not ignorant. Though most of them were starving, they were willing to give me their last two bucks in case I needed a bus at the protest. These are the type of people that would be locked up for life, starve to death, or anything else ("live simply so that others may simply live") just so you can have a little bit more of a say at your place of employment or anywhere else.
It's so easy though, isn't it? To throw out random words like "non-constructive", "ignorant", "oppositional", "evil", or whatever else without any real basis other than assumption. Like all things, if you actually wanted to look a little closer, you'd see things you didn't actually want to.
-dr
Oh my poor little dr, its not arrogance at all. I know you and your kind all to well. You shout and you blame. You point fingers and spend countless hours sitting with your little group justifying you own inexcusable actions. You profess to have the answers and as usual you have nothing. Angry little people leading angry little lives. It's sad enough that you actually help no one, sadder still you seem not to know the difference. If you actually took the time and looked closely at your own actions you would soon see you only exist to stroke your own ego. It is such a waste. You could do so much more. But that would mean being responsible something you know little about.
The arrogance is in your own words. You can't even see the difference between education and intelligence. So an "educated" man can through rocks and paint at police. They can deface public property and justify it by suggesting they are only "symbols" of the oppressors.. Is that your debate? Is that how you discuss political or sociological theory these days? Surely not the actions of an intelligent man of that I am certain. Intelligence does not come exclusively from education, a point made abundantly clear by your little band of "PhD's and friends.
You have rambled on in this place endlessly making nothing but excuses for your actions and what have you accomplished? How has pulling a balaclava over your head and lobbing paint in the streets helped the poor this week? Are they sleeping easier at night knowing masked PhD's are now destroying property? Are their stomachs fuller now that you received your much prized media coverage? Will they be filled with hope as our own little troop of miscreants drift back to town only to relive their exciting escapades on the campus radio station? Are you actually so blind as to think your actions even helped? You suggest that its easy to label you and your actions. Well the truth is... it is, but only because you make it so.
For once I fully agree with "just passing" go for it man!!
Just Passing:
You say that we shout and blame and point fingers -- but is that not what you are doing here on this blog today, and what you have been doing. Nobody alive together is innocent of this. So move on to a different approach.
You say that we help nobody and yet, I witnessed first hand the poorest of people come together and feed each other selflessly; but not just themselves they fed, for free, anybody who wanted or needed food. When was the last time you cooked, for yourself, something for somebody who couldn't afford to eat?
You talk of ego's as if it is only us who have them. The fact us the entire world is full of ego's, some of them dominate the will of other ego's and some allow other ego's their space to live in freedom. Your ego dominates.
If I was a mirror you'd see how meaningless/ful your words really word. Especially this sentence: "It is such a waste. You could do so much more. But that would mean being responsible something you know little about." Take your own advice.
If intelligence doesn't come from education, you must mean it comes from some transcendental realm; from a natural impulse perhaps? Who knows, maybe god? Whatever it is, it's bullshit. You conveniently ignore the actions of the police, and the silent violence that all the targets have waged for so many years on the poor. These are companies and people who are set on perpetuating their own richness, power, and domination. These are people/corporations that care only to maximize their own power at the expense of real people. If I can throw a rock at my (or your) oppressor's window, I'll gladly do it. One window can be replaced. The little boy who nearly died from the tazer of the cop this past weekend, could never be replaced. I watched as he shivered and turned blue; his physical motor abilities were wiped away. All he could do was blink. The cops pinned him to the ground, one or two concerned (maybe cause they realized how much trouble that they were in) others sat on top of him. This was a boy no older than 17 years. His only crime was wearing a black mask, and maybe throwing a paint ball at a multi-billion dollar bank that kills people daily all over the world. You see a broken window -- I see thousands dead. Which is the real violence?
The fact that you claim that there is a distinction between education and intelligence is funny to me; clearly the two are relative concepts. Your understanding of so-called "intelligence" (which you obviously claim to have, if you can spot who *doesn't* have it) certainly does match up with my understanding. You, my friend, are nothing but a stupid complacent pig.
You want to talk theory? Define violence. Compare and contrast the violence. Who had the "weapons"? The police, the corporations, the media, or the protesters? Which were more powerful weapons? Who was on the losing end? Who is most affected by it all? These are the questions you should be asking. We should never take the conservative position and assume that authority is right all of the time.
How has wearing a bandana over another persons face, and throwing paint onto big corporate buildings, help the poor? It sends a message to everybody that there are people who are willing to take a stand; not in politics (because we all know where that brings us), not in communication (because, with you as a case in point, most people don't want to communicate), and not as a hero (because heros end up becoming oppressors).
If you had no property and you knew that there were people out there trying to rid the world of property -- yes, you'd sleep a little easier knowing that you weren't alone.
Just Passing, your problem is that you are always "Just Passing" in life; you take your freedoms for granted, you don't try to get any more, and you don't stand for anything. You'd like to take the easy way in life; get a credit card, sit on your computer all day, while thousands of people will never in their lifetime have that privilege. As long as people like you are "Just Passing" through life, I'll be in the streets.
-dr
Actually "Just Passing", I remember watching all the protesters shout and scream at the media for recording them. None of them actually wanted the media there. They screamed "get the **ck out of here corporate scum", among other things.
Also, I have never been a part of campus radio, nor will I ever. If you ask me, that approach is pure bs.
Strawpersons. That's what the media uses, that's what AIMS uses, and that's what you use.
-dr
I think its important as this particular page slowly makes it's way to the archives to take a moment and really thank those selfless individuals that work tirelessly day after day, week after week helping the less fortunate of this city. While dropping off groceries at the food bank, contributing cash donations when asked and volunteering occasionally do of course help we really know we could be doing and giving so much more. We may not all be able to work as hard as some, but we can all give more of our time and our money to help those in need and to support those that work so hard caring for them.
Even dr and those like him deserve our thanks. Were it not for their misguided and spurious actions we might have been in danger of becoming complacent and forgetting about those out there that REALLY are concerned about poverty and homelessness. So lets just all be thankful the dr's of the world are few and far between and lets all do a little more for those that truly matter. Those that don't find it necessary to hide behind a mask when professing to be working for those in need.
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