Someone suggested that it would be a great idea to take a picture of the vehicle you’re driving.
I’m going to start taking pictures and paste the vehicle in this blog.
We know that you don’t pay for your gas and Bernard Lord don’t seem to understand the urgency in this situation?
Lets see what kind of vehicle you’re driving?
So? Don’t be surprise that one day you receive a message and it says - Hey? Your vehicle is on Charlie’s blog!!! Beware!!!!!
You better leave your SUV home.
93 comments:
Charlie the reason I've sent you that suggestion is with all we are going through in the last couple of years in this Province and with Mr. Lord constantly saying there's no money for this,there's no money for that.
Basicly he's telling us we all must except sacrifices as this province is close to bankrupt.
They should be feeling the pinch as well, setting by example why should we the people continuously suffer while they live larger than life and high on the hog?????? after all isn't that our purse they are living on?????
I strongly believe that we are all going to take a huge heart attack once the Liberals comes to power. When Shawn Graham announce the true amount of money we are paying daily for the removal of the tolls are going to blow many peoples minds.....
I wasn't aware that MLAs didn't have to pay for their own gas. Is this true? If so, where could I find proof of this?
Not that it would surprise me or anything... trust me! :)
I just want to make sure that before I agree with the practice I ensure that what I'm reading is fact and not just directionless government bashing.
Thanks,
At a buck and a half a litre and rising it should be very interesting to see who is joy riding at our expense.
Also this will show who is caring and who is sharing??
If I were to guestimate I will make the prediction that most of these abusers will be of the conservative type,or will I be wrong???
As chuck would say---I don't think so!
This will also give us the voters a glimpse into who will be running in the next election because they genuinely feel our pain or the reverse,
Who will be running just to exploit the fine neverending perks!!
I've raised this question here before and this seems to be the proper setting. How much should a provincial politician be paid? What is fair? Putting aside the ideology for a moment and not getting into parties, what should a MLA and a Cabinet Minister make. Personally I don't have a problem with what they're making now. It's less than what the private sector pays for work of similar value and these people take calls from constituents 24/7 and are under the magnifying glass of the press full-time. I think they deserve every penny no matter what party they belong too.
To 2:35(I wasn't aware)It is very true !!! we do indeed pay for their gas not only that but here it comes are you ready???
It is also well known that some of these fine folks, after being voted into their four year vacation go out to the nearest dealership and LEASE one of the biggest vehicles they can get, ride the hell out of it and if they miss a second term, no problem take it back..Pull their old one back out of the driveway and no problem!!
good day spinks it's been awhile???
MY GOD????? DON'T GET HIM GOING!!!! ,,,lol....I'm going to be honest with ya? An MLA is not an easy life < beside the pension > They received a lot of phone calls and they have to listen to everyone concerns. Now? A bureaucrat? There's a good job!!!!
Come now charlie that was pretty inosent, we all know his comments are valued here as well as any other lol
I just meant he must have been away for awhile...eeaassyy now.
heeyyy...I don't mind Spinks....once he gets going? I'm forgotten!!!!! that's good!!!...lol...
Did you miss me 2:47? LOL.
Seriously though MLA's can drive Hummers as far as I'm concerned as long as it comes out of their salaries. How they spend that money is their business just as how I spend my salary is my business. Now, if they're buying pricey vehicles on the taxpayer dollar under their department which is seperate from their salary, then I have a problem. I think if Charles is snapping photos of their vehicles, it should be clear which it is. Is it a government vehicle or their own personal vehicle? There is a distinct difference.
Spinks it isn't who has paid for the vehicles.It's who's paying for the gas that goes in them thats the question!
At a $1.49 per litre and climbing, why are these people leaving their economy cars at home and bringing the BIG, I don't pay for the gas Joe public does vehicles, thats what we need to know!!
T.S. - thanks for clarifying. Is there a spot on the net or somewhere that says what their allowance is for gas and such? - if there is such a thing.
I don't have a problem with what they make (I certainly wouldn't do it for that kind of money) and agree with Spinks (will wonders never cease!) that what they do with their money is their business.
However, I would like to see if there is a gas allowance - whether it has a ceiling or is open-ended.
With the blind bashing of the government on here, you can certainly understand why I might like to see something more concrete and factual than something I read on here! :)
Thanks
I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that they get an allowance for each kilometre on work related activity. That isn't to drive from their Fredericton residence to work but is from their constituencey to Fredericton. If that's the case, that's in line with any other business. If the vehicle is a strictly government vehicle and used strictly for government business a government gas card would be used. That's normal business practice. I don't see a problem with that. The only problem I would have is if they were using government vehicles for personal use or charging kilometres which are for personal use. I haven't heard of that happening but if it were that would be a concern.
Few apologists for the government. Impossible job for being apologist for Lord government. My smpathies. Government vehicles used strictly for government business?? Someone is in la la land and dreaming. We have short memory. Remember Norm Betts, our former finance minister who paid $90 for a glass of beer in New York. Just apply that formula all around. Only paying for gas will be cheap. If I am not mistaken if MLAs sign off as government business then they get 30 cents a km or something if they use their own vehicle. If government vehicle is being used then everthing is paid by the taxpayer. I mean everything: from buying the vehicle to repairs, gas etc. Family members of government MLAs have known to use such vehicles in the past. Then when government MLA sign off as a government business, whether it is or not, there is some $50 daily meal allowence and the best hotels and accomodation.
Do not forget trips by Lord, Percy Mockler, Joan MacAlpine and others to Paris, France and other exotic places. It goes on and on. The sucker taxpayer pays it all and then re-elect incompetent government like Bernard Lord. One can write a book on it and some will be written, however,this will suffice for now.
0.30 a kilometre in compensation for using your own vehicle is a bargain for the taxpayer if it's true. The Feds on your taxes have it calculated at 43.5 cents a km to cover all the expenses of driving a vehicle and that was when gas was 0.65 cents a litre. Like I said if it's being abused, it should be investigated but people need to drive in 2005 and politicians are no different. What is your solution my friend? Do they bicycle from Campbellton to Fredericotn, hitchhike, walk? C'mon.
No spinks you come on, I think there is enough written for even you to understand the point which is once again this:
If this government is telling the people of this province they have no money to take care of badly needed services of just about every subject and that we have to tighten our belts through these difficult times Why are some members of this government not setting by example showing up to work in these large SUV's,Landrovers,etc.with only the driver,why do they not car pool the same as the rest of us or why do they not use their smaller car that is sitting in their driveways.
Let's take minister Blaney for example She drives from Quispamsis five days a week to the Capital in an SUV that's soooo big she looks like a 14 year old driving behind the wheel, she comes alone as in passes by many other members that could share a ride in that monster truck that WE AS TAX PAYERS ARE FILLING WITH GAS EVERY COUPLE OF MILES.which is now close to 1.50 per litre.
Now times that by quite a few members just like that and you tell us,
Does that make you feel good at the end of the day??
Do you believe this is doing their part to ease the pain of our tax dollar pinch???
Why can't you ever understand the simplicity of these questions based on the size of our province and the amount of taxes we are shelling out for little to no return on our investments through new money or creative governing.
Why do these representatives of the people of this province get to live high on the hog while we the people are the only ones to feel the pinch!!??
Clear enough?????????
Yes it is more than 30 cents. Correct. Lot more needs to be investigated than just the abuse of government vehicles or travel expense and travel privileges. It is peanuts compared to other fiascos. We are still waiting for Orimulsion investigation which was killed by Lord government many times over. $3 billions gone and counting. I hope you live in NB. Where have you been. How long have public and oppositon been asking for investigation of Orimulsion. May be you can get something rolling. As was said before it is hard to be an apologist for the Lord government. All the sympathies to you.
Is the blog being spinked again??????????
Sorry T.S. I can't agree with you on this one. If Blaney wants to use her salary and what her husband makes to buy a personal SUV and pay $1.40 a litre to fill it, that's her business.
That would be like dictating to you, how you spend your money that you make. I don't think anyone should tell you how to do that either. Now if she's driving a strictly government vehicle and there's no justification for using an SUV (sometimes there is to carry passengers, equipment, etc.), then sure, get a Ford Focus or something cheaper when the lease is up, but if it's hers, spent with her personal salary, she can do what she wants and it's none of our business.
Spinks who told you that Blaney bought the SUV herself or by her husband. Who are you kidding? Can you confirm that for sure. Minister's vehicle is paid by the taxpayers and all the expenses paid including gas and insurance. Do you live on Mars? Or just like Lord and you want to fool everybody here.
Wow, I missed you guys.
I don't know if her SUV is paid for by government directly or out of her salary, but let's assume as you have that all expenses are paid by us. So what. Do we spend a fortune breaking a lease to make a point? Like I said when the lease is up, get a Ford Focus. If a government paid for vehicle is used for personal use to take her kids to soccer or whatever, that's wrong, and she should pay back each kilometre to the public coffers. Otherwise, let's agree that politicians have to drive too. I don't care if they're PC, Liberal, or NDP. If they have to drive for work over and above any reasonable distance (from Fredericton residence to their Fredericton office for example), we as the employer should pick up the tab, just like the private sector does. Just because you don't like this government doesn't mean we make them walk or bike 200 km. That might make you feel warm and fuzzy that you screwed over the big bad politician but the job requires some reasonable compensation so that people feel compelled to run. If you don't like the system, join a party, run in a riding on a campaign that politicians don't get compensated for mileage, or get a vehicle, win the riding and get that legislation approved.
Sheesh, next thing you know you're going to be following them in the grocery store and asking why they bought brand-name cereal.
Spinks, sorry but you stink. You have not offered a single fact. 'Should', 'would' and did. All the fuzzy stuff. Provide facts. Who bought the SUV? Who pays for gas, insurance and other expenses? Would a smaller vehicle not do? Provide facts or shut up.
Spinks assumes a lot. Let's assume this and that. You know what they say about those who assume a lot. Set aside assumptions and com'on with facts.
I can't wait to get the pictures in here then we'll see who wastes more fuel.
Here's some facts: the government gives each minister an allowance to get a vehicle to use for government business. I have no idea what the amount is, but I believe it's in the ballpark of $15,000. Each of them then decides what to buy/lease, and they cover all the excess purchase price. If the get a $15,000 car, it's no cost to them. If it's $35,000, they pay 20 grand.
After they reach a certain amount of mileage, dunno what, they get to trade in and get a new one. And yes, while they have their cars, their expenses are covered, including gas. It's supposed to be just work expenses, but who checks? The thing is, cabinet ministers really don't have time to have much of a life, so I have a hard time imagining they drive all over the place for fun anbd stick taxpapers for gas.
Backbench MLAs, of whatever side, do not get a car. They do get to charge 30-something cents per km to drive to Fredericton every time they do that, and claim their meals and accommodations.
Exactly 12:29 and what's wrong with that? Nothing. That's fair and the way any fair-minded business would treat similar employees. If anyone posting here is in a similar situation and their business is not treating them that way, your employer is not fair and your beef is with him/her.
If backbench MLA's are getting 0.30 a km, we are ripping them off as their employer. It costs more than that to keep a car on the road when gas wasn't 1.40 a litre.
This is Spinks by the way. Log-in is a problem this morning.
$15000 allowance does not make any sense whatsoever. If minister pays the rest and when the minister is done with the vehicle, does she/he get her portion of the money back or keep the vehicle. Vehicle is fully paid by the taxpayers. If there is any specific information to the contrary, please post it.
It is not like a business. These people are elected to serve the public and not fleece it. When business hires someone they do a lot of research and look for qualifications. Unfortunately same does not apply to the politicians and even idiots like Bernard Lord get elected. These are not retired executives or ex-executives of the business.
GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE OF A BUSINESS EMPLOYER, WHERE EMPLOYER GOES HUNGRY ADN HOMELESS BUT ENSURES THAT HIS EMPLOYEE LIVES THE LIFE LUXURY. Comparing government with business is balony and is muddying the water to take the heat of real culprits here: Bernie and the gang.They are indefensible. Good try though.
Okay 9:27am. I'll play your game. What do you suggest for transportation compensation for a cabinet minister?
Spinks
Spinks, you just do not read posts by others. T.S. has been calling for smaller cars and stopping misuse of travel privileges and travel expenses. May be you can start an investigation of that because Lord will block any investigation. You have been asked numerous questions and you answered none. First read responses to your blogs, answers the questions and give a plan how you would start an investigations.
Provide example of another employer who lives in utter poverty and provides all the luxeries to his/her employees.
If people think that MLA's are their 'employees', well that's just too funny for words. Where is that written? Where does that come from? Parliamentarians are not even YOUR representatives. They do not represent their constituency, they represent THEIR PARTY. The liberals or conservatives or NDP. The only way you could remotely think they are OUR employees would be if they were independants. And when have you EVER seen an independant in the New Brunswick legislature?
4:52 pm you have a lot and some more to learn. An MLA is indeed an employee of voters, we the taxpayers pay his/her salary and other perks. Who do you think they are employee of? And what independent has got to do with it? You need a course in democracy 101. Unless Lord has unilaterly changed something (which luckily he cannot in a democratic system) he is an employee of the people of this province and so are rest of the elected officials or MLAs in this case. Good luck in your studies.
Oh really, then why don't you fire him? hmm? Good luck with that. You may buy Irving gas and Irving products, which of course pays JD Irving's salary- do you really think that makes JD an employee of yours? Canada is NOT a democracy, obviously you need that course in political science. Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy with a system of Responsible government. I think you may be confusing your country with the one south of the border which had a revolution and so has a markedly dissimilar government.
In New Brunswick the power rests not only with elected officials (which you cannot recall by the way, so so much for 'firing') but also with the crown. The queen can overrule every ruling Bernard Lord makes if she wanted to (of course she doesn't give a rat's ass). How do you think you vote every election? Every party has a platform which they put out and you vote the one which corresponds closest to your thinking. Try calling your local elected official and tell them you want a new law made-then I'll hold my breath waiting for it to be passed. Why do you think there is a 'speech from the throne', you think YOU are the throne?
You can live in 'ideal land' and pretend that somehow all those people who have power over you, decide every aspect of your life, tax you, police you, are somehow employees of yours all you want.
Try TREATING them like employees and see how far you get. If they were actually employees they would contact their 'bosses' far more often. In case you haven't noticed, their 'bosses' are named Irving, as the episode in Saint John well showed. It was hilarious that the spokesman from northern New Brunswick who was in the trucking strike said "up here we call him Bernard Irving".
Keep pretending you live in the US or Switzerland, try 'bossing around' some of your employees and tell me how it goes.
You are talking about reality vs theory. Although, strangely, I agree with you that Bernard Lord does think that his boss is Irving.
Not to worry. He will be fired sooner than you think. Usually provincial politicians are fired every four years but for Bernie it will come much sooner. Remember how Hatfield was fired in 1987. Even Queen could not help him who you think is the real sovereign. Hatfield killed Tories and Bernie will succeed to bury it forever 100 feet under. RIP.
5:55 PM made an infantile and feeble attempt to recover. He is still a baby when it comes to the knowledge of political reality in NB and Canada. What uncle Sam has to do with it?
"Provide example of another employer who lives in utter poverty and provides all the luxeries to his/her employees."
What luxuries? A salary? Compensation for transportation when it's away from home? I can't think of one MLA in this province who is living in a mansion. Compensation for MLA's is the same as other jobs and in fact pretty low when compared to the private sector. Personally I'd like to see the number of MLA's reduced from 55 to about 41 or 42 and give them a 10% pay hike. They're underpaid and that's why often we don't get great candidates. Who wants to put up with those type of demands for so little money and grief if you submit a mileage claim? Sorry ladies and gents, they have to be compensated with a salary and reasonable expenses and before I hear about Betts $90.00 burger from 4-5 years ago again. He was called on it and voted out. 'Nuff said. Although if you've ever visited Manhattan, you'd be shocked at the prices in restaurants and I'm betting if your employer sent you there you would demand a reasonable meal that didn't come out of your pocket too.
One does feel sorry for you, Spinks. You have chosen a very hard job to be a spokesperson for Lord. Must be tough. We are talking about government MLAs and let us not confuse matters here. How much it will cost taxpayers for Jody Carr's training, how to be a leader, in Philadelphia . Some tough competition to get elected and then take trainig at taxpayers's expense how to be a leader. Why have we to pay for this novice's training?
Does the hardships include trips to France by Lord and associates(first time by mistake I typed Lord and asses which is more appropriate)and frequent trips to New York, Washington DC and exotic places around the globe. Must be tough. You are really insulting our intelligence. If you are defender of Lord & associate then you are doing a horrible & lousy job.
I'm not defending anyone. What I'm telling you is it costs taxpayers to have elected representation. Salaries, accomodations, transportation, etc. and since you brought it up, yes ongoing training and education because you have to stay current. These are all reasonable expenses if you wnat to attract people to the job.
The great thing about being a politician is that you don't need any experience at all. You can run, I can run, anyone can. If the people give you the most votes you win. I think it's great Jody Carr, or Kelly Lamrock, or Elizabeth Weir or anyone else get sent for some training courses. If you don't want "novices" and only want people who know all the workings of government when they're elected, you're going to be voting for bureaucrats because they're the only ones with the training and education. I sure don't want that. I think it's great that we have a bus driver (Tanker Malley) and a carpenter (Stuart Jamieson) in the NB legislature. I wouldn't have it any other way.
It's unfortunate this site is so focused on strictly Lord-bashing. There's potential for some good discussion here, and it happens... but not very often.
By the way, no one answered what fair compensation for MLA's is for expenses or salary for that matter. Any takers or just more rhetoric?
Rhetoric is your game, Spinks. How soon you forget? We are talking about Lord and his cronies and misuse and abuse of public funds. Other than fuzzy rhetoric you have not given a single fact to deny that reality.
People do not have means to survive and your government MLAs need 1000's of dollars for training &retraining. Good one, Spinks. You are insulting our intelligence, indeed.
The US is far closer to a democracy than Canada, but this is because americans demanded democracy. The most democratic country in the world is Switzerland.
Take a look right next door if you want to see some democracy, in Maine every town along the coast had a referendum on whether they wanted a LNG terminal or not, almost all of them voted no, but one town finally voted yes.
If we lived in Maine right now we could be gathering names for a petition on anything which would force the government to either adopt the demands of our petition or else hold a referendum. THAT is closer to what democracy is. Apart from one badly run referendum New Brunswickers have NEVER made any political decisions. Do some reading, 'democracy' means "ruled by the people" NOT 'ruled by representatives'.
It IS too bad there's so much Lord bashing and little analysis. Bernard Lord has lots of wealthy friends, he isn't going to be hurting. Keep in mind that Hatfield almost got half of the votes of New Brunswickers, more than anything it was the f^%#$ed up electoral system we have that made it look like Hatfield was so despised. He got more votes in defeat than Chretien ever got as Prime Minister.
Finally, as we've seen, Irving calls the shots, and we should keep in mind that the Grahams are from Buctouche and they and the Irving's go WAY back. People gaining satisfaction from Lord's defeat may find their satisfaction short lived with Graham. Check their website, there's hardly a word comes out against Irving.
People have an inflated view of what Cabinet members do. An easy example is to look at your local city council. They know almost nothing about most things, each will have some knowledge from a specific committee, but nothing that anybody with internet access can't find out. City staff analyze most issues and make recommendations, councillors simply vote 'yes' or 'no'.
The same goes for cabinet members who have enormous staff's who make most of their decisions. Go read some bills, most involve very little actual knowledge of issues. In many cases, of course, bills are written directly by industry. The forestry industry virtually manages the forests with little government interference except for broad outlines.
So the thing to keep in mind is how easy it would be to do without them altogether. Again, take a look at Switzerland where more decisions are made at the local level, and they are made by the people meeting once or twice a month, or even every six months. What should we do with forests? Stop talking BS and put out the information and let people vote. Should we refit nuclear power-or do like PEI and work harder at wind power? Put out the information, let the people vote.
People severely underestimate their own intelligence (or more accurately their neighbours) and overestimate that of their party's reps. It doesn't take 'specialized knowledge' to answer 'what do the people want?' All it takes is asking them. So of course my answer is that no member of government should be given ANY vehicle, but gas and mileage can be paid.
One final thought is that I find it unfortunate that so much attention is paid to Lord and so little to the real screwing over that comes out of Ottawa, yet federal politicians are almost never mentioned.
10:20pm, you raise a good point about the feds which I try to bring up from time to time but generally most who visit this site are only interested in bashing Lord no matter what the topic and bashing those who disagree with them. Too bad.
You're right about cabinet ministers having general knowledge and you raise some interesting points about changing the system. However in the meantime, it's the system we've got so MLA's should continue to get paid a reasonable salary, expenses and be offered appropriate training opportunities from time to time. Most employers do these things. I don't see why GNB should be any different.
If you aren't talking about changing the system then you are talking about nothing. Sorry, but if you think politicians are reading these comments for policy aims I'm afraid you will be disappointed. Obviously you are saying things are fine the way they are, that's your opinion and you've a (sort of) right to it.
However, what exactly are 'training' opportunities? That means nothing. They certainly aren't being trained in democracy or how to serve their constituents better. If they want to 'learn' that they can do it without pay-like everybody else who learns.
There was an above poster who wasn't real eloquent but was right on the money when he challenged the often quoted assertion that 'politicians should be paid equivalent to private sector'. There is no such equivalency, democracy and capitalism are two very different things. There are NO equivalents in the private sector. Your "representative" has thousands of constituents which they answer to, what 'manager' does anything remotely close to that? Those red cross workers on strike up north work twice as hard as an accountant-are they paid twice as much, or even equally? Of course not, because we live in the real world.
If we did want to change the system it would be very easy, but most people are scared of change and prefer their yoke. People are also afraid of power and responsibility, it's far easier to write on blogs and gripe at Tim Horton's. It's far easier to 'hope' that once Lord is gone somehow New Brunswick will change the path that it's been on for twenty years. It's a lifetime of Irving Media that makes people say "it's the system we've got so live with it". That ideology of defeat is crammed into every child's head for all the years at public school and you hear it all the time in media. There was a media study done by a guy in Moncton and he found the common thread in stories about Irving or unions was that 'there is nothing you can do about it'.
Want to learn how to 'train' a representative? You don't need to spend a penny-go to www.scottreid.com and you'll see how to learn about democracy.
Scott Reid is a conservative MP in a rural area outside Ottawa, for FOUR key votes he put the decision to his constituents in a riding-wide referendum.
It was only four votes, but it is a start. Of course if constituents don't TELL their elected officials to do this, then it won't get done. If you want to change the system then write your local MLA and MP and TELL them you want this. If they refuse-which no doubt they will, then run against them as an independant-you won't win, but what may happen is that they will make a consession to their constituents in order to get elected. Read a history of Canada, this is the ONLY way any positive change has come to canadians. You scare the hell out of politicians, it worked for the CCF, it worked for the PQ, and it worked for the Reform party. Each of those parties had most of their platforms adopted by the liberals because they were SCARED.
In New Brunswick, we see none of that. People can hope that once Lord is gone things will be better. I doubt that, but who knows? For me and my friends, changing the system is our intent-not just for us, but for the next generation, who don't deserve to be brought up in Irvingland. Take a look around the world, New Brunswickers are not alone, everybody is fed up with their 'representatives' and huge changes have been happening. Venezuela is practically another Cuba, Brazil elected a government radically opposed to corporate interests, the people of Bolivia rioted so hard they scared Bechtel corporation right out of the country.
There are big changes coming in the future-don't believe me? Go read some articles from the Atlantic Institute of Market Studies-they are lobbying for change: lower minimum wage, fewer union laws, fewer good jobs in government, less transfer payments, etc. Those will be coming if big business gets its way. No government in the world can oppose that without the people's support.
Interesting discussion but little too theoretical. Why there is a Lord bashing because he is an immoral, unethical, incorrigible liar. Many have found that out. It is a disgrace that this man occupies august office of the Premier. It is sacrilegious to allow such a pest to occupy this dignified office.
Shawn Graham is no saviour and answer to all the problems but it is hoped the man has some morals. May be those of you who are pre-occupied with theoratical issues will not understand this.
Although someone here will like to bash CBC, Chinese, Govenor-General designate, minorities, women(their place is in the home according to this someone), parents of disabled children. To that someone you are on a very wrong site.
Ordinary folks have bread & butter issues and they least care about heavy theorems.
It so happens that ordinary folks also care about honour and diginity (most people do in general) which Bernard Lord severely lacks and that is why so much anger.
Gee would someone be looking to get rid of an opposing view. Thank goodness we still live in a democracy and I can continue to post until Charles kicks me off.
"There are NO equivalents in the private sector."
You're right. That's why I've said we don't pay our MLA's enough. No one is getting rich being an MLA. Maybe after you leave politics like McKenna but not while you're in. Even the Premier makes just over $100,000. A lot of money to most of us but not in the business world especially considering all the grief that goes with it.
It's interesting Scott Reid is brought up (who by the way is Liberal these days not Conservative - 9:26am). Lord had a referendum on VLT's. The vote came in. I'm not happy with the results but the people have spoken. It sounds like you should be happy with that step anyway.
To call Lord a liar seems pretty strong. I sure don't agree with all of his decisions but I can't say I've ever seen hard evidence that he is lied. You're entitled to your opinion that you think he's a liar but I haven't seen it yet. Anything he's said he's going to do, he seems to do. Unfortunately it takes forever for him to do anything. Indecisive? Absolutely. A liar? Sorry, no sale at this point.
9:11am - No, I'm not really interested in a complete overhaul of the system as most of the posters here refer too. Most of the ideas are some type of socialism and I'm no socialist. I don't think most Canadians are ready for socialism either although I'll admit a few of the ideas tossed around are intriguing. I'm just not ready for a socialist revolution where ultimately nobody wins.
Spinks, you are full of it. $100,000 is the peanuts to you. Just the salary is $100,000. Add perks to it and $60,000 he gets from his party. The guy costs us half a million or more a year. That is not a small potateo. People who are trying to survive on $260 a month, ask them. Your insensitivity is your trade mark. This guy does not deserve $260 a month given the job he has done. And he will look after himself once he leaves office just like McKenna.
You must be a liar yourself or you have a very short memory that you do not remember Lord lying. Too many examples. But the one which stands out is when he said, in the legislature in 2003, that there was a surplus. He was reminded that it was not true. Later Auditor General confirmed it that it was a deficit. But Lord had to lie to win 2003 election. Come to the real world man. Comparing Premier's office with business executive is the biggest bull there is.
I always like this site because I get it from both sides. The people whose side I'm on tell me I'm too theoretical and should just keep repeating "Lord bad Lord bad Lord bad". The other side just disagrees.
Of course I know Spinks well and though he usually has an idea what he's talking about, it's usually just an idea. Switzerland and the United States are the two most democratic countries in the world, I'd hardly call the Swiss 'socialists'. Socialism, to be theoritical again, means the people control all aspects of production-and there's never actually BEEN a socialist government in the world. When Mainers vote on whether they want an LNG terminal, they aren't practising socialism, they are practising democracy. A citizen's initiative has nothing to do with socialism. If Saint Johners had voted for an LNG terminal, that wouldn't mean they would OWN it-THAT would be socialism, which NOBODY is talking about (at least not here).
Once again a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, you are confusing two Scott Reid's, one is a liberal party spokesman, the other is a conservative-again, go RESEARCH it, it takes like five seconds.
For the other side, while I sympathize with the poverty in New Brunswick, things like the LNG, wasted tax dollars, corruption, affect EVERYBODY. So just repeating 'Lord bad' is simply not enough. I have no idea why talking about democracy is 'too theoritical', and I'm certainly not about to stop. If you are the type of person who can only hope Shawn Graham will have 'morals' then more power to you, but some of us have work to do. Shawn Graham has said NOTHING that shows he has morals, he said nothing when truckers were threatened with arrest, and has said nothing about increasing the minimum wage, he's said nothing against the LNG terminal and nothing about creating a public insurance plan. However, as the saying goes "people get the democracy they deserve".
12:45pm - you're right, my mistake, I was confusing Scott Reid and Scott Brisson or is it Andy Scott. Ha ha. Anyway, I stand corrected. That alone should start a few more posts from the Spinks bashers. Gee what would you guys write about without me? Didn't look like much while I was gone for 2 weeks. ;)
I thought it seemed quiet, as I was gone for two weeks too! Without theory or Spinksisms there just aren't enough comments around here!:)
Having one referendum in over a hundred years does not make a democracy, and keep in mind that this referendum was chosen by the government. In Maine the People choose what to have referenda on.
In New Brunswick we know what a sham the referenda was, it was interesting because a public relations firm in St.John until recently featured their 'successes' on their home page and one thing they took credit for was winning the VLT referendum for the VLT owners.
Obviously its good to have a referendum, but there were some fatal flaws:
1. The referendum legislation had a 'sunset clause' which meant the government could actually overturn the referenda if it didn't go it's way.
2. The government had radically changed the VLT legislation but had not advertised it to anybody.
3. Referenda laws in the provinces have financial rules for running the referenda, but the government didn't enact those laws, so the video industry could spend as much as it wanted, while opposition parties had to write letters to the editor.
This is what happens when you let governments have control and when you let them KEEP control. The only way to get it from them, however, is organization, and New Brunswick has very little of that-thanks in good part to the Irvings.
4:45 PM. I mostly agree with your views. Here is the problem. You assume that rest of us do not know what democracy and socialism is. You seem to be educating the readers on this site about these concepts or system of governments and giving grade 12 level lectures. It is too bad you do not realize that. Keep in mind that if you are writting something for general public consumption then just state the facts straight forward instead of telling us what is the theory behind it.
It is sad. I would like to support your point of view but you become awefully boring when you go on these lecture binges. That is how your site vivnewbrunswick is and you do not get very many hits for the same reasons. Charles has folksy stile and that is why it is so appealling. You do not have to have Ph. D. to put your point accross. We can read books for all those theories. I want to help rest is up to you.Good luck nonetheless.
Actually, I've had over 5000 hits and the site has only been up for a few weeks. Plus the posters have only been up for a short time and many have been taken down. Charles has just mentioned it so it will no doubt go higher. Like Charles though, I realize that it is not quantity but quality that counts. It isn't the numbers you reach, it's how you can affect the ones you do reach. I never would have done the site or gotten active if it weren't for Charles, and I've already gotten emails from teenagers who are very interested in Proportional Representation, and perhaps that's where the real change will come-at least that's how it has in the past.
However, I will swallow some pride and acknowledge that I'm long winded and have my own style which is unlike Charles. I read Charles because of his information, I don't look for 'style', in fact I wouldn't call Charles 'folksy' really. I'm sure Charles would forgive me if I said that he's often downright abrasive, and God love him for that-the world needs sandpaper. However, Charles passes on information, and even information that he's said many times before and I don't think I've ever seen a written complaint on here that Charles is talking down to people because he's saying something we already know. Suffice it to say that you like his style but don't like mine-so be it (there's only one Charles out there)
I've only met one New Brunswicker who has even known what Proportional Representation even means, so I don't think it's out of line to say that the site is 'educating' New Brunswickers (though I changed it to 'inform'). I happen to know quite a bit about it, while others don't know anything. You are assuming everybody is like you, however, I've gotten emails from 13 year olds who ask me questions at the site, so Grade 12 is quite an advance for them.
What I ALWAYS write is 'facts'. The above definitions of socialism and democracy are facts. Maine having referenda is fact, so I'm really not sure how that is talking down to people-my parents go to Maine all the time and they didn't even know what a 'citizen's initiative' was, or that such a thing existed-I certainly didn't until quite recently. I would have LOVED somebody to talk preachy to me ten years ago so that I could learn it.
You might know everything and don't need to be told, well, god bless you for that and by all means write up some stories on New Brunswick that don't get into the Irving Press and I'd love to put them right alongside mine. In fact my original intention was to just link to NB stories that don't get much media access, however, in New Brunswick there are few sources like that.
I'm doing this because the NEED is there. New Brunswickers now have a golden opportunity that has only ever been granted to British Columbia. Lose this chance and it will be another decade before we see any changes-if then. The Irving Press won't tell you about proportional development, they don't WANT you to know, they LOVE the government just the way it is, and they'll buy off Graham just as quick as Lord-or quicker since their families go back together so far.
However, you have good advice and it's a foolish man who won't even look at criticism- but it is very hard and time consuming to 'sound objective' and to write like a journalist-there's a reason Charles writes 'folksy'-because it's fast and requires no editing. I would rather somebody else wrote the stories and I could just post them, unfortunately the real world doesn't work that way. I plan on contacting the STU journalism school and inviting the students to write the stories, then I can just edit and/or post, and you won't have to hear from me personally at all.
6:10 PM. Thank you for your response. I hope you understand that I mean well and I tried to be critical in a helpful way but if I came across harsh then I am sorry. I do wish you to succeed what you are doing as I wish Charles and Tim to succeed.
May be I know of some wrongdoings of Lord government that you probabley do not know. Seniors, rural folks and many others have been hurt by uncaring Lord government. Charles was lied by Lord himself. Tim was lied to by many ministers. It is a very immoral and unethical government and probabley you are not aware of ins and out of this very immoral government.
Single-mother, homeless youth and many other have been treated rotten by Lord government. Time will bring to light many wrong-doings of this government. This has nothing to do with a system of government but everything to do with the immorality of certain individuals including Lord and his Ministers.
Once again I do wish you well.
Believe me, the site has just started and those are exactly the stories that I want to know about. If the stories have already been told then I'd like to know where, particularly as regards the poor. The 'middle class' needs to hear these stories more often, since the real voting power is with them and its for that reason that the website is designed more for that group.
While I agree about the Lord government I don't agree that they are so much different than other governments. Thanks to the internet we are learning about these things, but remember, Mckenna made millionaires out of criminals (and donaters) and started the whole VLT problem and refused to let natives run casino's, the only thing that got them out of poverty in the US. He also called the cops on a bunch of parents and kids protesting school closings in northern NB. That certainly doesn't excuse them-power corrupts, we should be looking at how to make sure those at the top have LESS power, which is what proportional representation would do.
Sorry Mike. McKenna never called in the cops in Saint-Sauveur. The parents believed that but they were wrong. The RCMP acted after a 24 hour road blockade the week before. Their information on that night stunk and they acted too hastily, but they acted alone.
Thank God that the cops interveen because of the violence? Frank backed down on the closures of the schools in the North Shore therefore he had to do the same action for the Southern part of the Province. Why are people in the Northern part more radical than the South?
10:53 PM. I did know McKenna government fairly well. It was no utopian government but when it comes to immorality; Lord and his ministers beat them all. Many stories are already public, veteran's case, single-mother's demonstration and her eviction from the government grounds, homeless youth's demonstrations and their eviction, eviction of a disabled young man and Family & Community Services did nothing to stop the evicttion,father of this youngman demonstrated too, hardships for seniors. Charles should know these stories. There are frequent letters in dailies regarding senior stories. Then there are some which are shrouded in privacy and not much can be done at this time but they will come to light in due course.
Charles, McKenna shut down a whole bunch of schools in the south (in English districts BTW) despite peaceful protests. The folks up north rioted and their schools stayed open. Squeaky wheel gets the grease I guess. Some chose to play the race card that it was against Francophones. Bogus argument but it worked.
There's a big difference though between having a school closed and having to bus your kids ten km and having to bus them 30 km. In demonstrations it is always the Premier's call, just like the truckers protest two weeks ago.
In Oromocto two schools were closed, but there were already 6 schools open so the kids just went to a different one. That's a big difference than being in a village and only having one school. The problem is the same as in Canada-when you've got a small population you get fewer services so it's hard to attract people to build up to the large population. New Brunswick's equalization payments have become smaller and smaller, so services get lousier and lousier and it's hard to attract people or investment. Why go to NB when you can go to southern ontario where the jobs are, or Calgary where even more jobs are.
It's not a coincidence that all the functioning cities are in the south and are english. Campbellton used to be 50% english but now is only 20% english. It's quite well known that french typically stay together whenever possible, thats true of all over New Brunswick. If you don't make a concerted effort to put industry and growth in under-developed areas then they die. The European Union did that in Ireland and now they are one of the biggest economies. In other words, not only should the people have to fight for what they have, but MORE should be put in so they don't need to. Moncton and Fredericton aren't 'prospering' for no reason, the government has been quite clear that their PURPOSE is to create 'clusters' for industry, which means everybody else is SOL. Ironically, the federal government has said the same thing, which is why all automotive industry and money stays in southern ontario and everybody else is SOL.
9:14am - Are you talking about spreading the wealth, so to speak? If so, that sounds great in theory but with 103 municipalities in N.B., government cannot be expected to prop every one up even when it is no longer feasible. Some communities prosper, some change as industry changes. Bathurst is about to go through major changes as the mine closes and Stone shuts down. I'm not sure government should try to fake an industry to prop up the town though. McKenna tried it with textiles in the north and it was an abysmal failure.
BTW, it isn't always the premier's call when dealing with police. The truckers Lord asked for the police to intervene. McKenna did not ask the Riot Squad to move into Saint-Sauveur. The police acted on their own and that came out in the independent report.
Nobody said Frank told the cops to go in and start busting heads, the police were told, as they always are-whether implicitly or explicitly, to 'do whatever they have to'. The Premier is aware of every such demonstration and is ultimately responsible for its outcome. When people protest it is quite easy for the premier or a minister to show up (with police protection if necessary-usually not) and negotiate with protestors.
There are lots of ways to affect social policy, and it certainly isn't all 'propping up' industry. It is extending more benefits to the unemployed, it is offering more training to the affected locals, it is pushing for industry in those areas rather than as it is now, which is advertising to get businesses for St.John, Moncton, and Fredericton. Why is aquaculture being sold so heavily in the bay of fundy yet not at all in the bay of chaleur? Why was the mining company allowed to simply extract materials without giving anything back to the community? In Newfoundland natives are given profit sharing, taxation deals, guaranteed incomes and all kinds of other long lasting perks, in Sudbury as mining becomes less intensive there the area has a world class mining school which now sends consultants all over the world and is now building a huge cancer and health research centre and the only new hospital built in Canada in decades.
Of course NOW no industry in their right mind is going to set up any where near Belledune, the future toxic capital of the maritimes, yet another good way to kill off industry there. No agricultural producers, no fisheries, and eco-tourism will NEVER even look at the area, in fact the Mayor of Belledune won't even allow milk from the area to even be tested.
'Propping up industry' is the WORST way to develop social policy. What you want to do is get local people working and building local industries. They can't do that if they don't know how and they can't do it if they have NO money. The other course is what you maintain, simply let people leave. Likewise we can simply let young people leave New Brunswick because there is little industry compared to other parts of Canada. What you describe about towns can apply just as easily to provinces, and even to countries. Some of us though don't think that's a real good idea, including the Premier I might add.
Mike?..I'd like to see these communities all survive but it takes a shift in the mindset among the people as well. Take the Acadian Peninsula. These are seasonal workers for the most part who like it the way it is. Many really don't want to work all year. That was the problem with the Textile industry and a few others who tried to set up year round businesses there. They couldn't find the workers in an area where there should be a plethora of them. I don't have an answer as to why except that's been the way of life for years and maybe they don't want to change. I speak in generalities before I get jumped on. Obviously, this doesn't include everybody but unfortunately it's enough to cause the area problems with economic development. The seemingly annual spring riot doesn't help tourism either.
People are leaving the province...you're right. I spoke in another blog about one of the reasons. For Anglophones it's that it's difficult in NB to get many jobs if they don't have French. Yes, it's equally difficult for Francophones to get jobs if they have no English but that is not the case as often. I've spoken to lots of NBers in other provinces who would love to come back but can't because they're always told they don't have French. I'm not here to argue if that's right or wrong...I don't know but it is a fact. It's a slow trickle but it is happening and I'm surprised someone in Government doesn't look at the poplation and say why is the number of Anglophones dropping in NB? I don't think they want to admit it because it wouldn't be good for French-English relations.
I don't think that's true at all but as always it's good to talk about stuff, and I guess the cat's out of the bag about the first part of my identity:) New Brunswick is a 'small' place to work and I've a big mouth with a life to protect so I hope people understand my desire for anonymity.
I would suggest that there is simply no jobs, pure and simple-for french OR english, go pick up a newspaper and check out the ads. If you are in Fredericton and want a government job then you are right, although I tend to disagree with the language aspect. Fredericton is a very small city, and in small city's it tends to be 'who you know'. I've never noticed the private sector being too concerned about bilingualism except in Moncton and northwards. At any of my jobs they would have liked french but didn't care, only in Moncton would french come in handy. I also know government people who don't speak both languages.
If you want a job in a call centre, depending of course on the company, then bilingualism may be required. Unfortunately for the province, there are simply so many people unemployed, many of them bilingual, that they will be picked first if they can do the job.
You can go look at canadiana.org and read some texts from long ago and you'll notice that there has ALWAYS been a big difference between french and english cultures here. The french always got along better with the natives because they shared the same ideology-that life was too short to spend it all working. You did as much work as you have to, and then life is for living. The irish were much like that as well but of course we know the british had that 'protestant work ethic' which meant if you weren't working all the time you were a lazy buttface. Of course we know where that comes from, since the british always had an upper class who did nothing, while everybody else worked!
So in those cases it simply becomes a question of fairness. What is necessary for a person to stay in their home and just live their life? We're a long way from that, it's been a long time since 95 when the feds cut way back on EI and welfare for the provinces, and then of course the province joined in the cutting. Acadians have always been more likely to forsake the grand opportunities available elsewhere to be able to stay in their communities-you can just check the census numbers for that.
So the final important question is, what would communities settle for in order to be happy? Well, as we know, questions like that aren't even asked. The Chaleur bay is incredibly beautiful, there's no reason that wouldn't be a tourist destination. But when you let Bennett Envirnomental and Noranda pollute it all to hell then it's pretty to sell. Keep in mind also that the Miramichi and Restigouche are simply colonies of Fredericton, the people couldn't even operate a fishery or enhance recreation because the provincial government auctions off most of the best spots to international millionaires who buy for ten years. So the FIRST thing to do to let rural places prosper is stop controlling them, then help invest in them-but of course we don't have a government who is interested in that, they just want access to resources and cheap labour.
As you've said Mike, I have ideas. Just a theory as to why the English are leaving NB. (The last census shows the decline) That's what I hear from Anglos who I've spoken to. Maybe there's another reason, I don't know. My theory makes sense given the comments I've heard from ex-NBers but it could be something else.
I don't debate that some ex-New Brunswickers said that and that it can often be true. However, people can often say all kinds of things for why they never got the job and if you check the job ads very few of them say bilingualism necessary. In southern New Brunswick you can even teach and there's no requirement to speak french. Virtually all the teachers I know of don't speak any french, and places like universities don't have bilingualism requirements at all (lots of them barely speak english). My siblings work in retail, education, software development, and forestry and none speak any french or have heard of any language requirement.
You may be right but Anglos are leaving for some reason and Francos aren't. Just a theory. Toss it aside if you like. The government certianly doesn't seem to entertain it even though they hear it all the time at their meetings in other provinces to try to bring ex-NBers home. Myself, if I were hearing this constantly I'd at least explore it and at least rule it out but I don't work for government. When this kind of stuff gets ignored you eventually get COR and I don't think NB needs that again.
I ma very concern that not too many people are giving their views on a man who force to sh@t in a garbage bag????
This isn't that thread dude. You get mad on threads where we get off topic and mad on topics where we don't go off topic!! You can't tell people what to comment on.
It sounds like Spinks is trying to do COR's work for them-what else to do but give anglos jobs instead of bilinguals. All because they want money more than family. There are jobs for anglos, pick up the paper.
Nope, COR is dead but something else could always come up to take it's place and if we stick our heads in the sand about this as you're suggesting, we risk another COR wannabe. I'd rather see the issue addressed instead of ignored. Ignore it if you want. Most do, including government just as they did before COR's rise. That's your choice but I for one don't want to see COR rise from the ashes.
From what you've said though, all you've suggested is getting rid of official bilingualism, which was the sole goal of COR. You've said that english people away from the province have no french and so can't find work here. What is the government supposed to do except start a program for ex-New Brunswicker's or else give jobs to these people who aren't bilingual. Whether it's COR or just your suggestion, either way the intent is getting rid of official bilingualism. I know plenty of people with government jobs who have no french, so if they could do it, obviously these others aren't qualified. They could get jobs, just not the jobs they want. In a bilingual province where 40% of the people are french it makes sense that a preferred job requirement be that the person speak both languages. Making it official means that there are at least more opportunities to learn the other language than previously. I had to do it on my own, my sister simply took it in public school.
First off 32% of the population is French and only 6% don't understand English and I have never suggested scrapping official bilingualism. I simply raise the point that Anglos are leaving and it's probably worth finding out why. I also think the blanket bilingualism policy just plain isn't cost effective. In a world where money is no object, it's a great idea but we're a relatively poor province and translating by-laws to the other official language in areas where the only people who are going to ask for them are trying to make a political point doesn't make sense.
Again, you are suggesting dismantling official bilingualism, which is the COR position. You can dance around it all you want and say how reasonable it is, etc., but the intent is the same.
Having 'sporadic' bilingualism is not provincial bilingualism.
One of the reasons Hatfield and McKenna were so keen on bilingualism is because it was the only way to get acadians to do what ALL rural denizens are supposed to do-which is move to the cities where the jobs are. Before bilingualism there was no way in hell that acadians could get jobs in the cities so they stayed in rural areas. This is an economic problem that is rampant particularly in NB.
Nope, official bilingualism is a good thing but there's incredible watse because it is taken too far.
You're suggesting that we should keep translating everything and throwing away tonnes of stuff which doesn't get used. As long as folks like yourself believe that, you really don't have a leg to stand on when complaining about other government waste. There's "x" amount of dollars. You want to sink whatever it takes into bilingualism even when it's knowingly wasteful. Sorry there's only so many dollars to go around. The translation and printing costs have to come from some other government program. That's Economics 101. It's too bad there isn't a money tree but that's reality.
Spinks ranting and raving continues. First it was Chinese, then minorities in general, then Anita Sherma of CBC, natives,then Governor General, women, homosexuals. His latest victim is bi-ligualism. Your ranting is nauseating.
That's pretty specious arguing, we can't argue against Irving getting hundreds of millions because we have bilingualism. The costs of bilingualism could have been supported by a .5% increase in corporate taxes or inheritance taxes. To say that we can't berate government for multi million dollar wastes because we tolerate them paying too much for paper clips is just crazy.
As said, signs are metal-so they are recycled. Also, in doing any of those tasks jobs are created. Whoever does that work is creating employment, just like a road construction crew. Far more importantly, more people have access to bilingualism than otherwise would. In the current generation there are literally thousands of youth who are now in their thirties who speak both languages because of it.
However, you may be on to something when you say 'the devil is in the details' because that can often be true. We can hunt for specifics, but I haven't heard any yet that I would agree with, certainly not street signs. If you come across one specific aspect that can be debated let us know.
No debate necessary. That's my opinion. I don't see the need for a city like Saint John to scrap perfectly good signs like what they have on a Fire Dept. for a bilingual sign. When the sign needs to be replaced, absolutely make it bilingual but to spend money the city doesn't have to tear out perfectly good signs in a watse of cash. To change every sign after Lord's enhancement of Official Languages in a city where I doubt there are many unilingual French speaking people doesn't make economic sense. It makes political sense but not economic or common sense. That's one example. Go to a gov't booth sometime and see the duplication because equal amounts of English and French must be produced. Why 50-50. The population alone dictates that you're going to throw tonnes out. Certainly, my opinion is not going to change that. I'm just baffled that no one here see that particularly on a site where everyone is always talking about government waste. I guess it's only waste to you folks if you disagree with it.
Personally I have all the opinions I need, which is why I generally look for facts and specifics. Opinions should come from facts or else they are useless and often hazardous.
So for the benefit of any others who might be reading who may agree but don't post, here's some other things to consider.
First, if you go to government offices the vast majority of information now is carried in english OR french. The travel guide, government publications, etc., are all available in french OR english. There are very few of the publications of the past where french and english were on one publication. The argument their could be made that they are wasting paper and ink, however, if you look at the dirt cheap price of paper and ink for those quantities, it really is insignificant.
So for publications it really doesn't make sense, so the argument becomes not economic, but political. It becomes 'they CAN read english so let's just publish in english and let them get by. That is where official bilingualism comes in. A person SHOULD be able to read publications in their own language.
For the sign we can look at the specifics since we now have them-the cost of the fire department sign. First of all, it should be noted that there is a very good likelihood that government didn't pay for this at all-check out http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/mfd/mfd/musquashfire.ca/annual_report_2002.htm
This is the Musquash fire department and if you go through the site you will notice that most fire departments are very involved in fundraising. In that instance they bought imaging equipment, an all terrain vehicle, and other equipment which make the cost of a sign absolutely inconsequential.
If you look at the province the only area that you could call 'thriving' is Moncton. There is a large bilingual population there, and no doubt in a bilingual province that has attracted a lot of business attention. Saint John is well known as an english blue collar town, and no doubt the province would like to change that image. I suspect, though I don't know, this is why 'enhancing' bilingualism is being down.
So there really could be the very real possibility that tax dollars weren't even used, and there's a good chance that this is also an economic investment. Finally, perhaps this was a political move to satisfy acadian groups so that maybe they'll get some votes. In that regard I'd agree that its a waste of money considering just how 'prosperous' most acadian communities are. However, so far I haven't seen any reason to fight bilingualism.
You don't publish 500 publications in English and 500 publications in French when you know you're going to garbage 250 of the French publications. That's what happens now with government. Doesn't make economic sense but does make political sense because it keeps the Mario Charlebois' of the world happy.
By the way Musquash is outside the City of Saint John limits. It's an LSD. I don't know if they have torn down perfectly good signs and replaced them with bilingual signs or not (can't tell from the report)but if they did, that really doesn't make sense. That would be like tearing down the French sign that's fine and replacing it with a bilingual sign on the volunteer fire department in Maisonnette. Equally dumb and a waste of money.
Spinks learn to read others point of view before you respond.
Uh, yeah I do read them all. What would be the point of coming here if not to read the entire posts.
Now, do you have a point or just more Spinks bashing?
Spinks, is this your full time job? How much you get paid?
Again, go do some research. The government NEVER prints an equal number of english and french publications. Only a minute number of travel magazines are ever printed in french (for example). Government publications are carefully studied and only a certain number are printed, based on previously taken publications.
Keep in mind that it isn't like tons of government publications are printed off. Most is available online.
So really the only real complaint about bilingualism is that some money was spent on some signs and maybe too many publications are printed-which would apply to just english ones as well. So you'll forgive those of us who think official bilingualism is worth that miniscule cost and move onto more important things.
If you think the cost of translation are miniscule you're way off base. The merits of bilingualism are worth a discussion because there are pros and cons but to say the cost is miniscule is absurd. It has undoubtedley cost billions over the year in this country. I've seen the stuff that gets thrown out. What a waste.
Fire Department signs in the City of Saint John are merely one example. We could find lots. People in Saint John pay too much tax to have their money wasted. Anyone who pays a property tax bill in that city will tell you that.
You have established yourself as a bigot. Is that not enough for you? You have shown bigotery on pretty well every issue, Spinks. Now on bilingualism.
Discussion is hardly bigotry. Again, I'm surprised on a site where so many complain about government waste, they're willing to overlook some aspects of this one to make them feel warm and fuzzy. C'est la vie.
Your concept of discussion is very odd.
Discussion is the exchange of ideas between at least two people.
Ideas yes. Distortions of facts and that is where trouble starts.
No, facts you don't like seem to be the problem. The blind hatred you have for myself is obviously affecting your judgement. Why else would you continue to argue about me on everything no matter how mundane the subject?
Spinks, you are the only one who is using the word hatred. You are obsessed with that word. It seems to pervade your whole being. So you must have lot of hatred. Overcome it because you are hurting no one more than yourself.
Some of your views on minorities,natives & women are detestable. I do not know you as person, thank God, so I cannot comment on you as a person. How can I hate you then when I do not know you?
I don't know but your insults indicate you do. I would agree it seems odd. Better to simply discuss things and accept the other person as a point of view which differs. You don't have to agree but you also don't need to throw insults. That's what I do.
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