QUESTION PERIOD AT THE NEW BRUNSWICK LEGISLATURE < Vendredi >

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ORAL QUESTIONS 17 QUESTIONS ORALES
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017 14:15
Conflict of Interest
Mr. S. Graham: My questions this afternoon are for the Premier. Although there are sharp divisions
in this Legislature, differences of opinion that are strongly and sincerely held, there continue to be
opportunities for all members of this Legislature to set their differences aside and cooperate to
ensure that good bills get passed. A good example has been the cooperation on housing issues under
the leadership of the member for Saint John Harbour, supported by the Minister of the Environment.
I think we appreciate that. This afternoon, I understand, we will also be working together to ensure
the passage of an important economic bill.
In the spirit of cooperation, I would like to ask the Premier if he would give honest consideration
to a private member’s bill that I will be introducing this afternoon, to strengthen the conflict of
interest provisions governing members of the Executive Council.
Hon. Mr. Lord: The spirit of cooperation can be alive and well, and I cannot wait to see whether
the opposition will honour its own motion of cooperation in this House. I think that will be a true
test of cooperation in this House: Will the opposition members acknowledge and respect their own
motion on committees of this House? That will be a true test of cooperation. On our side, we have
always given due diligence and consideration to any bill proposed by the opposition. I look forward
to reading the bill that will be put forward by the Leader of the Opposition today.
Mr. S. Graham: We know that the people of New Brunswick want stronger accountability from
elected members, especially members of Cabinet. Part of this accountability is giving assurance to
members of the public that members of Cabinet are free of any conflict of interest or appearance of
conflict of interest when they make decisions. The bill I will be introducing this afternoon forbids
any member of Cabinet from accepting any salary or financial benefit other than that received
directly from the government of New Brunswick. If Cabinet members, including the Premier, want
to accept another salary from another source, they must apply to the Conflict of Interest
Commissioner and receive written permission. Will the Premier and his government support this
legislation?
Hon. Mr. Lord: When we receive the bill that will be tabled by the Leader of the Opposition, we
will certainly consider it at that time. I think it is very clear what the Leader of the Opposition is
trying to do. This has nothing to do with cooperation. It has everything to do with politics. This
Leader of the Opposition and his caucus come into this House every day and distort facts to present
their case, which is not a very strong case for the people of New Brunswick.
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I want to state very clearly for the record that I respect—and, to my knowledge, every single
member of my Cabinet respects—the rules under the legislation that is enacted in the province.
Mr. S. Graham: Again, what we are asking the Premier to agree on this afternoon is how we can
strengthen the legislation in New Brunswick. Clearly, from the Premier’s comments, it seems he will
not support the legislation we are proposing.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. S. Graham: We feel that the House should be made aware of why it is acceptable for anyone
in Cabinet to receive a salary or financial benefit other than what is paid directly from government.
Would the Premier also tell us . . .
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. S. Graham: . . . receive a salary from an organization that receives substantial funding from
the taxpayers and that is regulated by the laws of this Legislature? What we are looking for is greater
transparency and greater accountability. We are hoping the Premier can agree to that.
Hon. Mr. Lord: In fact, in New Brunswick, there is great transparency, and there is great
accountability. That is why all the amounts that are received by any member of the Executive
Council are reported directly to the public, just as every single donation over $100 received by
political parties in New Brunswick is declared, for everyone to see.
I wonder if the Leader of the Opposition would also propose that members of this House who have
other jobs should quit their jobs while they serve as members of this House. They could not conduct
other business. Maybe the member for Moncton North should not accept clients because it might
conflict with his positions in this House. Maybe the member for York should quit his business,
because maybe he is selling windows to New Brunswickers, and that has an impact on his vote.
I think before the opposition members start throwing stones, they should move out of the glass
house.
018 14:20
Mr. S. Graham: I would like to remind the Premier that it was the actions of his predecessor from
the Conservative Party of New Brunswick that caused him to change the law, rather than abide by
the decision rendered by the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, who, at the time, ruled against the
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acceptance of these salaries. The salary for members of the Executive Council, including the
Premier, is set out by law and is considered sufficient in the eyes of many New Brunswickers. We
do not choose this life for financial compensation, but because we are motivated by the need for
public service. Ethical behaviour is demanded from those who hold high office.
(Interjection.)
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. S. Graham: Even the appearance of a conflict of interest is to be avoided. Can the Premier tell
us why he feels the current situation is acceptable, or even preferable, than adopting a higher
standard of ethical behaviour? That is the question. If we can improve the standards for members
of Executive Council, then why can we not move in that direction?
Hon. Mr. Lord: Our government is more than willing to consider any reasonable proposal by the
opposition or other New Brunswickers. In fact, the Leader of the Opposition is trying to apply a
double standard. The fact is that any money received by any member of the Executive Council has
to be declared to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, and is done so and reported to New
Brunswickers. Therefore, there is total transparency, and the people of New Brunswick know
exactly how much those amounts are and from where they are coming.
I would suggest to the Leader of the Opposition that he may want to have this same conversation
with members of his caucus who are members of this House and who receive a salary from this
House, but who, at the same time, receive money from other parties and we do not know who they
are. He may also want to talk to former leaders of his Party who also accepted money from their
parties when they were members of the Executive Council.
Mr. S. Graham: If the Premier feels strongly on this matter, the bill that we are proposing this
afternoon would allow him, or any other member of the Executive Council, to seek the permission
of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner in order to continue receiving a salary or financial benefit
from an outside source. This application would need to be made in writing, and the Conflict of
Interest Commissioner would rule on this application. What we are saying today, and we hope the
Premier will agree, is that there would be sufficient protection to prevent any conflict of interest on
the part of the members of Executive Council. Any time that we can bring forward legislation to
strengthen the Office of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner, I think both parties in this Chamber
would be well advised to move in that direction.
Hon. Mr. Lord: As I stated earlier, we look forward to seeing the bill that will be tabled by the
Leader of the Opposition. I think that the Leader of the Opposition should be accurate in his
questions. There is only one exception currently in New Brunswick, and that is money received by
political organizations and political parties, and it has to be fully declared to the Conflict of Interest
Commissioner. This was a legislation, if I remember correctly, that was tabled by the previous
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Liberal government, but not enacted. The Liberals did not enact their legislation before they left
office. We did enact the legislation and proclaimed it when we came into office, to ensure that there
were strict rules.
The Leader of the Opposition has asked the question, and I have stated very clearly that we will look
at his bill. I am looking forward to the other question that the Leader of the Opposition was
supposed to ask me. He said in the paper that he wanted to ask me some questions. He said
yesterday that he wanted to ask me some questions. I am here today. Please, ask me those questions.
Mr. S. Graham: It is easy to see that patience is a virtue. I have given the government 24 hours
notice that I would be seeking an answer from the Premier on a question regarding a provincial
election this spring. In fact, we know that his party has been organizing and that his government has
sharply increased the number and amount of spending announcements—a sure sign that an election
is forthcoming. Members of his Cabinet have even been publicly calling for an election.
Will the Premier, in his desperate attempts at clinging to power at any cost, allow the people of New
Brunswick to decide who should have the clear majority? If the Premier is so confident that his
actions will receive the approval of New Brunswickers, why will he not put it to the test? Will the
Premier immediately call on the Lieutenant-Governor and ask for an election?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I want to make sure that the Leader of the Opposition is not disappointed. I look
forward to the next campaign. Because the Leader of the Opposition is trying to cling to his own job
as Leader of the Liberal Party, I will not call an election for that.
I want to state that whoever the Liberals want to keep as their leader is their decision. We know they
are jockeying for a position from Moncton North, from Fredericton-Fort Nashwaak, and few other
members are jockeying for a position. That is their issue.
019 14:25
The fact is that the last election was less than three years ago. The tradition in New Brunswick is
usually four years. I remember that, back in 2002, the Liberals said that we should not call an
election in 2002 because it would cost too much money for the taxpayers. The fact is that we have
a mandate for the people of New Brunswick. The fact is that we have a majority government. The
fact is that we will continue to deliver for the people of New Brunswick.
Mr. Murphy: I would like to test the waters a little bit to find out how good the relationship has
been with the federal government since January 23. Prior to that time, when Paul Martin was in
power, the Premier repeatedly asked for as much as a $400-million contribution to Point Lepreau.
Now that Mr. Harper is in and everything is groovy with the federal government, and all the Harper
hippies over there are happy, I would like to know if the Premier is going to go to the Prime Minister
and ask for that $400-million contribution for Point Lepreau.
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Hon. Mr. Lord: I certainly welcome the question, because there is a new partnership for progress
between the government of New Brunswick and the government in Ottawa. I hear the comments of
the Leader of the Opposition who wants to criticize me for getting a $400-million highway deal for
New Brunswick. How much money was the previous Liberal government able to obtain from the
Liberal government in Ottawa for the twinning of the Trans-Canada Highway between Moncton and
Fredericton? Zero dollars. We were able to obtain a $400-million cost-shared agreement with former
Prime Minister Chrétien, and now we have a new $400-million agreement with Prime Minister
Stephen Harper.
Unfortunately, the Prime Minister will not be able to clean up every single mess that was left behind
by the previous Liberal federal government. We made a decision on Point Lepreau. That decision
was made in 2005, and we will stick to our decision.
Mr. Murphy: That means that this Premier is going to give up on that $400-million quest just like
that because his political cousin is now in power. I am glad he mentioned highways. For a number
of years, he kept asking for an 80-20 split on the highways that this government would build in
conjunction with the federal government. He was adamant that this government had to have that.
Now, we understand that this $400-million agreement is on a 50-50 basis. Will the Premier confirm
to me today that he is asking the federal government, on that $400-million deal, to contribute 80%,
about which he was so adamant with the previous federal Liberal government.
Hon. Mr. Lord: I know that the member for Moncton North is a lawyer, and a good one at that, but
he would never win a case with evidence like this. I would like the member for Moncton North, or
his leader, or anybody in that caucus over there, to show me where we asked for an 80-20 highway
agreement with the federal government. That is simply not true. We asked the previous federal
government, which always said no to New Brunswick, for strategic investments based on the four
building blocks of infrastructure, people, innovation, and competitive taxation. We put in place a
comprehensive package. It was not all or nothing. It was just ways in which they could invest in
New Brunswick. We now have a new federal government that says yes to New Brunswick. Yes, it
wants to put in $200 million, and it suggested a 50-50 cost sharing. We said yes, because we are
going to spend more than that anyway to improve the roads here in New Brunswick.
Mr. Murphy: That witness over there is squirming at this question. I have another question on the
80-20 split. He brought out a plan a few months ago, which he has forgotten about since Stephen
Harper came to power. When he never believed or dreamed that Stephen Harper would ascend to
his throne, he asked for an 80-20 split with the federal government on the acceleration plan of $1.5
billion. What has happened about the acceleration plan? We have potentially another $400 million
or $500 million coming to us because of the strong work of the member for Nepisiquit. Now, I want
to know if he is going to get 80% on the acceleration plan from Stephen Harper.
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020 14:30
Hon. Mr. Lord: I am glad to see that the member for Moncton North—sorry, he is not yet the
Leader of the Opposition—now supports accelerating greater opportunity and the Prosperity Plan
of New Brunswick. I was very clear that, when we submitted that proposal to the federal
government, it was a proposal. The previous Liberal government was going around New Brunswick
telling New Brunswickers that it had $800 million for New Brunswick, which was also not true. To
take it to task, we said: If you want to invest money, here is where you can do it. The former federal
government had nothing to say. Now, we have a new federal government, and I see that the strategy
is so easy to see as the disappointment on the faces of the Liberals today. Their disappointment is
that we are actually getting along, and we are getting things for New Brunswickers. Therefore, my
question to the opposition is this. Are you in favour of or against the $400-million deal that we have
obtained for highways? Yes or no?
Smurfit-Stone Container Canada Inc.
Mr. Kenny: My question today is for the Minister of Business New Brunswick. In August, Smurfit-
Stone announced the closure of its Bathurst mill. The closure meant the loss of 270 well-paying jobs.
The impact of these job losses would be felt beyond the 270 families immediately affected. The mill
contributed over $22 million to the economy in direct payroll alone. It was worth up to $15 million
in the trucking industry and outbound traffic. It paid $10 million in energy costs and provided $1.8
million of tax base for the city of Bathurst. It has now been eight months, and the mill continues to
sit idle. Since the House opened in December, we have not received any update from the Minister
of Business New Brunswick on the efforts to find a buyer for the mill and reopen it. My question
is this. Can you provide an update to the House on what has been done on this file, and will you
provide a more detailed report to the people of Bathurst on this file?
Hon. Mr. MacDonald: This is a very important file to us at Business New Brunswick. The officials
in the Department of Business New Brunswick have been working to explore any and all
opportunities to reopen that operation. In fact, we are committed to the forest industry as a whole.
That is why we announced a $250-million program over a five-year period for the forest industry
in this province.
Mr. Kenny: The minister did not answer my question, but there are 270 Canadian embassies in the
world, in 180 countries throughout the world. Employed at each embassy is an investment
commissioner. This person’s job is to find foreign investors from the respective countries to invest
in Canada. My question to the Minister of Business New Brunswick is this. In which countries has
your department utilized these trade commissioners and sent them information about the Smurfit-
Stone mill in Bathurst?
Hon. Mr. MacDonald: There is a formalized process that we are undertaking to identify
opportunities for that operation. That process has been ongoing for some time now. We have had
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some experience with this in the past. I cite the work that my predecessor, the member for
Tantramar, undertook on a number of files to make sure that the mills in this province reopen and
to continue to explore any and all opportunities to make that happen on an ongoing basis. We will
continue to do that.
Mr. Kenny: I would like to see the minister himself take a personal interest in this exact project.
In February, I was in Germany, and I had the opportunity to meet with the investment trade
commissioner at the Canadian embassy in Berlin. He told me that he was in contact with Business
New Brunswick officials, and he also told me that he knew nothing about northern New Brunswick.
More specifically, he said that he had no knowledge of the Smurfit-Stone mill being for sale. Is the
Minister of Business New Brunswick content that enough is being done to find an investor for the
mill, get the mill open, and get these New Brunswickers working again?
021 14:35
Hon. Mr. MacDonald: When I was attending university and high school, I always found that I was
well advised to do my homework before I went to class. I would suggest to my esteemed colleague
across the way that he do his homework, because if, in fact, he does his homework, he will find that
we have been working diligently on this file. I have taken the opportunity to meet with the enterprise
agency in his region, and we are continuing to explore opportunities for the betterment of all New
Brunswickers.
Enfants en difficultés d’apprentissage
Mme C. Robichaud : Le rapport MacKay demande que le ministre de l’Éducation lance l’élaboration
d’une stratégie provinciale sur les difficultés d’apprentissage pour stimuler et appuyer les élèves
ayant des besoins particuliers. Selon le Troubles d’apprentissage—Association du Nouveau-
Brunswick, 10 % de nos élèves souffrent de troubles d’apprentissage, 10 % de problèmes de
comportement, 5 % de THADA et 6 % d’autisme. Selon Pikluski, 80 % des élèves identifiés ont un
sérieux problème d’apprentissage. Les enfants dyslexiques de la région de Kent, de chez nous et
d’ailleurs, les Wayne, les Carole et les Pierre, affrontent une gamme de difficultés orthophoniques
et de troubles des traitements de l’information auditive. L’an dernier, le ministre a refusé de fournir
des ordinateurs aux élèves en difficulté. Le ministre de l’Éducation peut-il me dire quels
programmes ou initiatives ont été mis en place pour aider les parents et les élèves dyslexiques depuis
les sept dernières années?
L’hon. M. Williams : En réponse à la député de Baie-de-Miramichi, en ce qui a trait au rapport
MacKay, cette dernière est au courant qu’il a été rendu public et que, le 29 mai prochain, les
intervenants qui sont intéressés vont se rencontrer ici, à Fredericton, justement pour discuter des
recommandations du rapport MacKay.
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Des investissements substantiels ont été faits en éducation. Encore cette année, nous allons ajouter
37,5 millions additionnels au budget au ministère de l’Éducation. Nous sommes en train d’aborder
les points auxquels la députée fait référence. Nous allons travailler avec nos différents partenaires
pour nous assurer que les enfants, les élèves, ont droit à une bonne éducation.
M C. Robichaud : Depuis les sept dernières années, je n’ai rien me vu en place pour aider les enfants.
Les élèves avec le THADA, soit le trouble d’hyperactivité avec déficit de l’attention, sont un défi
pour le système scolaire et nos enseignants. De récentes études ont démontré que les effets
secondaires du Ritalin peuvent être très sérieux, pour les élèves en particulier. On note des incidents
de troubles cardiaques. Dans le rapport MacKay, on se réfère à la réforme de Pierre Dumas pour les
élèves avec le THADA. Le ministre peut-il nous expliquer les recommandations de Pierre Dumas?
Qu’est-ce que le gouvernement propose de mettre en place dès septembre pour les enfants souffrant
du THADA dans nos écoles?
L’hon. M. Williams : Nous investissons davantage en éducation. Nous avons des projets pilotes qui
sont en place actuellement dans les différents districts scolaires.
En ce qui a trait aux ordinateurs portables, nous avons annoncé l’achat de 9 000 portables cette
année, qui seront disponibles aux enseignants pour poursuivre notre programme qui a été mis en
place pour les élèves de la 7e et de la 8e année. Il y a des investissements très importants qui sont
faits dans le système scolaire. Nous avons beaucoup investi depuis 1999. Si la députée veut
comparer les investissements que nous avons faits durant les sept dernières années aux
investissements que les Libéraux ont faits durant les sept dernières années qu’ils étaient au pouvoir,
cela me fera plaisir.
Mme C. Robichaud : Le ministre ne comprend certainement pas le problème des dyslexiques dans
nos salles de classe. Dans nos écoles aujourd’hui, il n’y a aucun poste lié à l’intervention des élèves
autistes.
022 14:40
Le gouvernement doit reconnaître les besoins des élèves pour modifier les politiques sur l’autisme
dans les écoles. Nous avons au-delà de 123 000 élèves dans nos écoles, et il y a une possibilité que
6 % d’entre eux, dans le secteur anglophone, souffrent d’autisme, alors qu’il n’y a pas de statistique
réelle pour le secteur francophone. Le ministre a-t-il rejoint l’Université du Nouveau-Brunswick ou
Mount Allison University pour développer un plan visant à aider ces élèves dans nos écoles? Il est
temps que les élèves autistes soient reconnus et aidés.
L’hon. M. Williams : Il existe deux projets pilotes, un dans la région de Kent et un dans le
Madawaska. Il y aura 240 nouveaux enseignants dans le système dès septembre 2006, et nous
ajoutons des ressources additionnelles pour traiter des défis qui existent présentement dans le
système d’éducation. Nous investissons un montant additionnel de 37,5 millions, et il y aura 240
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nouveaux enseignants. Nous avons aussi le projet des ordinateurs portables, et nous avons augmenté
le salaire des enseignants suppléants. Nous investissons un montant de 5 millions dans l’examen des
recommandations du rapport MacKay. Donc, nous faisons ce qu’il faut faire en ce qui a trait à
l’éducation afin de donner à nos élèves la meilleure éducation possible.
Tourism
Mr. R. Boudreau: My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Tourism and Parks. Madam
Minister, since 2003, members of TAG, the Tourism Action Group, have been bringing forth to
Tourism New Brunswick problems with illegal operations of commercial cottages, particularly in
southern New Brunswick. According to members of TAG, little or no action was taken on this file
until a few weeks ago. Why did it take so long?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: I am very pleased to rise and address the House on this issue. The
member for Campbellton understands well that there has been a situation with unlicensed cottages
in the province. There was a lot of consultation between the Department of Tourism and Parks and
the stakeholders involved. We have also had an opportunity to consult with other provinces that are
in similar situations, to find a solution that will address this problem and address it properly. We
have done that. The process has begun, and I believe that this process is well under way. I know it
is well under way, and this issue is being well addressed. I am sure it will make a major impact on
the 2006 tourism season.
Mr. R. Boudreau: I would like to read two excerpts from e-mails that I received yesterday. The first
one refers to statements the minister made that were published in the Telegraph-Journal on March
8, 2006.
She stated that it will be the end of the road for what some tourism operators are calling a province
wide black market of unlicensed, illegal accommodation rentals. This road is long and winding and
since the policy rollout on Feb 23rd, 2006, nothing has happened.
In the second one, the individual says: I have become so frustrated by this minister’s lack of action
in this department with current licensing practices.
Why would these individuals, who are owners, say such things?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: I cannot speak for why certain individuals would comment, but I can
assure the House that the issue has been addressed. It is being addressed. The proper steps are being
taken in order to ensure that illegal cottage renters do not do that anymore. There has been a major
problem. We recognize that problem. We have taken steps to change it, and that is under way at this
time. It will affect the 2006 tourism season.
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I believe that those who have been in a position of renting unlicensed cottages are aware of the
situation. They have been made aware of the situation and that they are in conflict, and, as we have
found in the past few weeks, they will comply with the new regulations.
Mr. R. Boudreau: My last comment is from another article I just received. It says:
Just checking in and bringing you up to date on what is going on in the bid to clean up the severe
problems within the tourism industry in New Brunswick.
I am including our proposed amendments to the New Brunswick Tourism Development Act (fifteen
PLUS years old—it is redundant and does NOT close the loopholes as written) which we have
submitted to the government.
My question is this: Why, since 2003, has the new law not been forthcoming?
023 14:45
It is redundant and does not close the loopholes as written, which we have submitted to the
government. My question is this: Why, since 2003, has a new law not been forthcoming?
Hon. Mrs. M Alpine-Stiles: The issue of unlicensed cottages is not new. ac I believe that, probably,
we have tried to look at the situation and decide why it is more prevalent in 2004, 2005, and 2006
than it was in the past. A lot of advertising was done on the Web, and that particular venue is used
more now in this electronic age than ever before. It was one of the major concerns that we had. We
have met with cottage owners; we have met with the stakeholders; in fact, we have met with all the
key operators in the province. We are taking steps to fix this problem, one that is not new, one that
is not different in this province than in any other province in Canada. We have realized that there
is a problem and we are rectifying it. I believe that is the role of the department. We have done it
through consultation. We have met with TIANB, we have met with the stakeholders, and we are
taking the appropriate action to address a problem that has been there for some time.
Mr. Speaker: I now recognize that oral question period has ended. I will recognize now the Minister
of Health to answer questions he was asked.
Physicians
Hon. Mr. Green: I rise to further answer a question posed to me yesterday by the member for
Miramichi Centre on the subject of physicians in Regional Health Authority 7, the Miramichi. I am
pleased to inform the House that, as of today, April 13, 2006, there are 35 family practitioners in that
health region and 27 specialists. To compare that to July 1999, it represents a net increase of six.
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Mr. Foran: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister of Health. One of my big concerns is the fact that
internists are being taken away from the Miramichi Regional Hospital. It is quite obvious to me and
to my constituents—not only to my constituents but to the complete area of Miramichi—that there
was certainly a move afoot two years to downgrade the Miramichi Regional Hospital from the status
it had when the reduction of beds was going from 27 . . . The other member of your caucus stated
at that time that if it had not been for him, it would have been more than 27 beds. Obviously, there
was a plan to do that. Since that time, we have gone from six full-time internists in Miramichi to
two, and one of them has resigned. What are you doing about that situation?
Hon. Mr. Green: First of all, I wish to point out that at no time in the development of the provincial
health plan was it ever the intention of this government, nor is it the intention of this government,
to downgrade the Miramichi hospital from its regional hospital status. It is true that there are some
vacancies currently for specialists on the Miramichi, but I am pleased to advise the House that three
internal medicine specialists have been successfully recruited by the region. They should be in place
and working this summer.