QUESTION PERIOD IN THE NEW BRUNSWICK LEGISLATURE < Vendredi >

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ORAL QUESTIONS 21 QUESTIONS ORALES
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Natural Gas
Mr. S. Graham: My question this morning is for the Minister of Natural Resources. As we know,
in New Brunswick, we have limited natural resources, and we try to value-add, to get the best value
in order to build the provincial economy. One area that has exciting potential, is, indeed, the finding
of natural gas in the McCully Field area, within Kings County. I have had an opportunity to visit the
site on a number of occasions, and, today, I would like an update from the minister.
The Oil and Natural Gas Act was last debated in this Legislature and passed in 1976. A number of
years have passed since the Act was passed, and regulatory changes need to be updated.
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I feel strongly that the time has come now, with the finding of natural gas in New Brunswick, that
we need to update the current piece of legislation. I would like to ask the minister if he would be
prepared to proceed with legislative changes on this important issue.
Hon. Mr. Ashfield: Indeed, the McCully field is an exciting project that is under way in New
Brunswick, with some very positive results to date. We are currently reviewing the Act, and we will
be making updates to the Act in the very near future.
Mr. S. Graham: That is the answer that we were looking for this morning. I appreciate the fact that
the minister is reviewing the Act. Again, Corridor Resources is currently in the process of seeking
out investors, with over $80 million, potentially, to be invested in this exciting project. That is why
it is so important that we move quickly on updating the royalty structure so that this will give
security to the investors as well in knowing what their return on investment will be.
One of the areas that we should be looking at is the variable rate based on production, depending
on what the well is producing. Currently, as the legislation stands, a 10% royalty applies at the
wellhead. Would the minister be willing to consider the suggestion that we are providing this
morning, that we look at a variable rate to increase the potential for investment in this exciting
project?
Hon. Mr. Ashfield: Certainly, the McCully field is very important and will be an important project
in this province. In terms of the variable rate that the Leader of the Opposition is suggesting, we will
certainly take his suggestion into consideration.
Mr. S. Graham: Again, I appreciate the fact that the minister is willing to take suggestions from
us this morning, because we, as a province, want to lead on this issue. That is why we feel strongly
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that a variable rate will allow increased capacity for more drilling to occur, and at the same time,
it will increase the potential for greater investment in the Sussex corridor region.
Another issue that we would also like to look at is a processing cost allowance. I think that the
minister should take a look at that in the regulatory process. We are saying today that there is going
to be increased cost within this wellfield for a number of piping opportunities to tap into one area
where they will have a compressing facility put in place and a cleaning of the gas with a dehydration
unit. There will be increased costs for having all of this piping in place. Could we look at a royalty
reduction to be put in place as a processing cost allowance?
Hon. Mr. Ashfield: We are considering a number of options in the development and review of this
new Act. Certainly, I am glad to take into consideration any suggestions that the Leader of the
Opposition has. If he would like to sit down and talk about those, I would be willing to do that as
well.
Mr. S. Graham: I feel that it is important for the public record that we give a clear indication to the
stakeholders of where we are moving on this issue. The legislation has not been upgraded since
1976. There has been a commitment for the past three years that we will be moving forward with
the legislation, but we now feel strongly that the time has come to be very proactive on this. That
is why we are saying that we should be looking at an allowance for gas processing and piping, the
percentage allowance that I am talking about today, as well as the variable rate. The variable rate
will have an opportunity to impact low-producing wells. There will be a lower amount of royalty
that they will pay. Higher-producing wells will have a higher amount of royalty. However, as the
gas depletes within the reservoir, a lesser royalty will be applied. It is a win-win situation for the
investors and for the province, which stands to gain economic revenue but also the economic spinoff
of seeing over $80 million invested in the Sussex region.
That is why we are stating publicly today that, rather than just the opposition providing the ideas,
we need to hear clearly what the minister is proposing as well. Could we get a clear timeline? I am
happy to hear that he is in agreement with the suggestions that we are providing, but can the minister
give a clear indication of what the department is also looking at?
Hon. Mr. Ashfield: Certainly, we are not just taking the suggestions of the opposition. I said I
would be willing to sit down and talk about the suggestions of the opposition to see what can be
done in the development of the Act and whether those suggestions could be incorporated. On this
side of the House, we are willing to work and to arrive at the best solution for the people of New
Brunswick.
Mr. S. Graham: I appreciate the fact that industry has to be involved at the table as well. I know
that the minister is going to be reaching out to the stakeholders to determine the best changes that
will be required regarding the Oil and Natural Gas Act with the new piece of legislation coming
forward.
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The point we are raising today is that there could be a potential in some of the wells of 440 000 ft3
per day of gas emanating from these wells. We have an opportunity to facilitate or reduce the
refinement process as well, and we need to create an environment for investment. The minister has
agreed that this is an important issue for the province. He has also agreed that industry has to be
consulted on some of the suggestions we are providing, as well, and I feel that that is the appropriate
step. What we need today from the minister is a clear commitment on when we can possibly see
legislation introduced in this Chamber to allow the passage of this legislation with the regulatory
changes implemented, to make sure that the environment for investment is in place. Could the
minister give a clear indication today of when he expects to see that legislation tabled?
Hon. Mr. Ashfield: We will take our time and review the legislation in the appropriate fashion. I
am not going to make a commitment as to the time lines. We will review the Act, make the
necessary changes, and make the best changes in the best interests of the people of New Brunswick.
Protection des renseignements personnels
M. Lamrock : Hier, j’ai donné l’occasion au ministre des Transports de démontrer qu’il avait suivi
la Loi sur la protection des renseignements personnels dans le gouvernement. Il a fait sa meilleure
impression de Marcel Marceau et a resté silencieux. Il doit dire comment un dossier dans son bureau
est arrivé à l’Assemblée législative pour être utilisé par le premier ministre dans un dossier de petite
politique.
Hier, le premier ministre a dit qu’il a congédié son attaché de presse parce que le fait d’avoir
distribué un document privé sans en rayer le nom était très sérieux. Si nous sommes d’accord avec
cet argument qui dit que quelqu’un doit perdre son emploi, ma question au ministre des Transports
est simple : Avant de laisser ce document sortir de son ministère, le ministre a-t-il rayé lui-même
le nom du document? A-t-il fait la même erreur que Chisholm Pothier?
L’hon. P. Robichaud : Comme le premier ministre et moi-même l’avons mentionné, une erreur a
été commise par un attaché de presse. L’attaché de presse a malheureusement démissionné suite à
cette erreur. Je tiens à aviser la Chambre que ni le premier ministre ni moi n’avons relâché
l’information ou n’avons demandé à quiconque de relâcher l’information. Alors, je pense que le
dossier est assez clair et que la réponse est assez claire également.
M. Lamrock : Ce n’est pas croyable. Je suis heureux que le ministre ait retrouvé son courage après
une période de réflexion et qu’il puisse répondre ce matin. Ce n’est pas croyable que le ministre
puisse dire que l’attaché de presse a pu trouver le document en 10 minutes, mais qu’il n’a pas laissé
le document sortir de son ministère et que le premier ministre n’a pas donné le document à l’attaché
de presse. L’histoire qu’il veut vraiment apporter à l’Assemblée législative, c’est qu’un attaché de
presse a pu trouver un document dans le ministère des Transports en 10 minutes sans assistance du
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ministre qui devait le garder et sans l’assistance du premier ministre qui l’avait juste avant. Est-ce
qu’il veut nous faire croire cela? Ma question au ministre est la suivante : Quand il a donné le
document pour que quelqu’un en fasse une copie, à quelle utilisation a-t-il cru que la copie servirait?
Pour quelle raison a-t-il donné le document pour en faire une copie? Est-ce l’original? Comment
l’attaché de presse a-t-il eu le document et pour quelle raison? C’était votre document.
L’hon. P. Robichaud : Ce qui est incroyable ce matin, c’est que, après plusieurs jours, l’opposition
libérale persiste à défendre le geste inacceptable de la députée de Baie-de-Miramichi. C’est ce qui
est incroyable ce matin. Après la GRC, après les Mères contre l’alcool au volant, après Opération
Nez rouge, qui ont tous dénoncé le geste et l’attitude répréhensibles de la députée de Baie-de-
Miramichi, voilà que, encore une fois, après tous ces jours, l’opposition libérale persiste à défendre
le geste de la députée de Baie-de-Miramichi et à en dire du bien. C’est ce qui est répréhensible et
c’est ce qui n’est pas acceptable dans le dossier.
Mr. Lamrock: The minister was so concerned about it that he kept it in the Premier’s desk for over
a year to wait for a political smear campaign. He chose to bring that story to the House. One
question, and he moves off of his story.
017 11:15
He said: Oh, no, I never let the document leave my ministry. The Press Secretary simply drove all
the way to the Department of Transportation, found it in 10 minutes, and brought it out without any
minister knowing. It was an immaculate conception of document by the Press Secretary. After one
question, he is already off his story because he knows he cannot defend it. Let’s see if he really can
be honest this time. The Minister of Transportation has told us that he still has the original document
in his files, and that the Press Secretary must have somehow got it out of there.
My question this morning is very simple: How many other letters, does the minister know of, has
his department provided to the Premier, or anyone in the Premier’s Office, for use in the political
smear file in this Legislature?
L’hon. P. Robichaud : L’ironie de cette histoire, c’est que ce sont des lettres que l’on reçoit des
Libéraux — ce sont des lettres que nous recevons des parlementaires libéraux —, qui non seulement
nous demandent de faire des gestes graves, mais nous demandent d’intervenir dans des décisions
émises par des juges, qui nous demandent de briser la loi. Ce sont de telles gestes qui sont graves.
Ce que je ne comprends pas encore ce matin, c’est que, après plusieurs jours, l’opposition libérale
s’acharne à vouloir défendre le geste de la députée.
Vous savez, le leader de l’opposition officielle a dit : l’erreur que la députée a faite, c’est qu’elle a
envoyé la lettre au mauvais ministre ; elle aurait dû l’envoyer au ministre de la Sécurité publique,
parce que là, il aurait pu faire appel pour le permis de conduire, ce qui est totalement faux.
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Peut-être que si les Libéraux reviennent au pouvoir donneront des permis de conduire à des gens qui
ont été reconnus coupables devant les tribunaux. Ce n’est pas notre cas et notre intention. Notre
intention est de continuer à respecter les lois et les règlements de la province.
Mr. S. Graham: My question is to the Minister of Transportation. If that is the story he is giving,
then is this minister prepared to accept the decision of the Ombudsman? If the decision of the
Ombudsman is that the minister responsible for this correspondence violated the protection of
private information, and if the decision of the Ombudsman is that this Act was violated and that this
minister responsible for the correspondence of private citizens breached the Act, is the minister
prepared to resign?
L’hon. P. Robichaud : Comme chef de l’opposition officielle, il devrait rappeler sa députée à
l’ordre et cesser de demander à des ministres de briser les lois et les règlements et d’intervenir dans
le processus judiciaire de notre cour.
Ce que je trouve aberrant de la part du chef de l’opposition officielle est ceci : lorsque j’ai répondu
à la députée de Baie-de-Miramichi, j’ai également envoyé ma réponse au chef de l’opposition
officielle, il y a plus d’un an et demi. Quels sont les gestes répréhensifs que le chef de l’opposition
officielle a-t-il faits à l’égard de sa députée? Quels sont les gestes qu’il a posés pour dénoncer
l’attitude de la députée de Baie-de-Miramichi? C’est du jamais vu dans l’histoire de l’Assemblée
législative : un parti politique tenter de couvrir un geste si inacceptable de la part d’une députée, et
cela nous en dit long sur les intentions du Parti libéral.
Écoles
Mme C. Robichaud : Mes questions sont pour le ministre de l’Éducation. Comment peut-on assurer
un apprentissage de qualité quand nos enseignants travaillent dans un milieu qui n’est pas très
sécuritaire. Il est primordial que nos écoles soient des milieux sécuritaires où nos enfants puissent
apprendre et que nos enseignants puissent enseigner sans intimidation et sans menace de violence.
Les enseignants sont inquiets par la montée du taxage, d’intimidation et de violence dans nos
milieux scolaires. Qu’a fait le ministre pour mettre en place des mécanismes pour s’assurer que nos
enseignants, nos élèves et le personnel de soutien se sentent en sécurité dans nos écoles?
L’hon. M. Williams : Cela me fait plaisir de répondre à la question de la député de Baie-de-
Miramichi. Cette année, dans les écoles du Nouveau-Brunswick, nous allons placer 58 millions pour
des projets d’immobilisation. C’est le montant que nous investissons pour s’assurer que nos écoles
sont sécuritaires, qu’elles rencontrent les normes et puissent donner une éducation de qualité à nos
jeunes au Nouveau-Brunswick.
Je voudrais rappeler à la députée qu’elle parle à ses collègues de l’opposition. Elle verra que, en
1999, leur dernier budget de capital n’était que de 18 millions.
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Vous comprendrez que les écoles ont été négligées et qu’il y a du rattrapage à faire. Cette année
seulement, nous investirons 58 millions de dollars dans les écoles du Nouveau-Brunswick.
Mme C. Robichaud : C’est encore un chiffre que le ministre nous donne. On ne voit pas de mesures
concrètes pour tenir compte des comportements violents et non convenables en milieu scolaire. Dans
le rapport MacKay, il y a des recommandations claires concernant la violence. La recommandation
74a) se lit comme suit :
Que la ministre de l'Éducation approfondisse la politique relative à un milieu propice à
l’apprentissage en s'engageant dans de plus vastes consultations avec les intervenants (y compris
les parents) afin d'élaborer une politique plus globale visant à répondre aux problèmes de la
violence et de l'intimidation à l'école. Ces consultations devraient être menées au plus tard deux ans
après la publication de ce rapport, ou à un moment antérieur en fonction des possibilités.
Ce ministre s’engage-t-il à suivre les recommandations du rapport avec des dates butoirs et de vraies
stratégies pour contrer la violence dans nos écoles?
L’hon. M. Williams : Nous sommes très au courant, car nous parlons avec les enseignants et nous
travaillons très près avec les conseils d’éducation. Nous sommes conscients de ce qui se passe dans
les écoles et nous sommes très sensibles à toute la situation. Par ce fait, le ministre des Finances a
annoncé cette année un budget record en éducation de 893 millions. Nous avons des investissements
importants justement pour traiter de ces situations en éducation au Nouveau-Brunswick. Elle parle
du rapport MacKay. Nous avons 5 millions. Nous allons discuter et travailler avec les intervenants
pour justement élaborer un plan d’action pour s’assurer d’avoir les meilleures initiatives et les
meilleures solutions pour donner à nos enfants la meilleure éducation possible au Nouveau-
Brunswick.
Mme C. Robichaud : Je n’ai pas encore entendu les recommandations ou les dates butoirs. Le
rapport MacKay demande un suivi suite à la mise en place des recommandations, des dates butoirs
et des mesures préventives pour assurer la sécurité dans nos écoles :
Une fois que les consultations ont été menées, que la ministre de l'Éducation adopte une politique
élargie et mise à jour relative à la sécurité à l'école, en s'appuyant sur les puissants fondements de
la politique actuelle. Une fois la politique rédigée, elle devrait être publiée à grande échelle dans
un éventail de formats différents. Ce processus devrait être terminé au plus tard deux ans après la
publication de ce rapport.
Le ministre a-t-il l’intention de suivre ces recommandations? S’engage-t-il à respecter des dates
butoirs établies dans le rapport MacKay?
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L’hon. M. Williams : Je voudrais rappeler à la députée de Baie-de-Miramichi que, au sujet du
rapport MacKay, un forum aura lieu les 28 et 29 mai prochain, et, avec les intervenants, nous
regarderons les recommandations qui étaient dans le rapport MacKay. La députée d’en face est très
consciente que nous travaillons avec les intervenants. Nous ne sommes pas isolés et nous
n’imposons pas à nos enseignants et nos districts… Elle devrait se rappeler que c’est l’ancien
gouvernement qui a éliminé et congédié les conseils scolaires. Nous les avons réintroduits et nous
travaillons avec les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick. Nous avons à coeur l’éducation au Nouveau-
Brunswick. Nous avons à coeur la sécurité des élèves. Je voudrais terminer en disant que nous avons
tellement à coeur la sécurité de nos élèves que c’est pourquoi nous nous assurons que les personnes
reconnues coupables de conduite en état d’ébriété ne sont pas sur la route quand les enfants se
promènent à l’école le jour.
Tourism
Mr. R. Boudreau: My questions this morning are for the Minister of Tourism and Parks. According
to a newspaper article published in the Telegraph-Journal on April 12, the Executive Director of the
New Brunswick Tourism Industry Association, Réal Robichaud, is pressing for $2 million more for
marketing, arguing that the so-called passport issue is a double-whammy for New Brunswick.
Would the minister confirm what the increase, if any, for marketing will be in this year’s budget?
019 11:25
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: I thank the member opposite for the question, and I am very familiar
with the comments made by the member of TIANB. We have looked at this situation, have talked
with TIANB, and have met with the stakeholders, who know our position. We have, in fact, not only
another $500 000 going into our marketing this year, but we also have a lot of other means and
funding coming, not necessarily from the Department of Tourism and Parks, but from other
government departments. I will be more than happy, from this point on, to talk about those different
areas. The RDC funding which has come through has been extremely beneficial to the department.
With regard to the passport issue, we have talked to Mr. Robichaud and to the association. I can
assure the member opposite that it is very, very premature to decide or have an idea of what the
impact might be, when we do not know whether or not there will in fact be a passport, or whether
some other type of identification will be used.
Mr. R. Boudreau: The $500 000 for the New York market is already earmarked for a daily flight
from Newark, New Jersey, to Moncton, through Continental Airlines, which is starting next month.
My question to the minister is the following: What new initiatives, if any, have been put forward to
attract the people from New York who do not fly, but who, instead, travel by car?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: The advertising and marketing campaign of the Department of
Tourism and Parks is one of which I am very proud. I have a tremendous staff, and I have a
tremendous group of individuals who work on this campaign yearly. When we talk about the
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American tourists coming to Canada, there are a lot of issues faced by American tourists right now.
The whole psyche of travel from the United States, not only to Canada, but around the world, has
been changed by such events as 9/11 and the SARS problem in Canada. They are now dealing with
a war, and there are so many issues that face the American tourists at this point in time that it is very
difficult to know just exactly what approach is going to work. We are continuing to market New
Brunswick as an extraordinary destination. We believe, and have found, through our marketing
campaigns, that that approach does work. Tourists are coming to Canada and to New Brunswick.
We will continue our work as a department. I have great trust in the department and in its marketing.
I know that the results speak for themselves. Thank you.
Mr. R. Boudreau: Madam Minister, you were cited in a newspaper article as saying that it is
“premature to boost spending on marketing to the U.S.” at the same time as, as you just mentioned,
an increasing number of Americans are staying away from Canada because of 9/11, fear of
terrorism, the Iraq war, SARS, and so on. There is a contradiction here. When the number of visitors
starts to drop, one would think that government would greatly increase the marketing budget to
counter the negative trend. While other Atlantic provinces, like P.E.I., are putting forward new,
innovative measures to promote their tourism industry, we in New Brunswick must content
ourselves with a tired minister and a do-nothing government, which is content with passing the buck
to other Canadian jurisdictions. My question is this: Why are you refusing to increase the funding
for tourism to our province, as requested by the Tourism Industry Association of New Brunswick,
when all the other Atlantic Provinces are increasing their marketing budgets to tap into new
opportunities and new markets?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: In the comments made in the interview with the Telegraph-Journal,
I was asked whether I thought that putting more money into the marketing campaign would
counteract . . .
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: Mr. Speaker, I would appreciate a little respect. I give it to members
on the opposite side, and I would expect to have the same respect.
When the article was done, the question of whether or not putting in more marketing dollars would
address the issue facing American tourists—and their lack of desire to leave their homeland—was
asked. Can I answer that that would, in fact, help? That has not been proven. It has not been proven
that putting more money into a campaign within the New York or American region is indeed going
to lure tourists to New Brunswick, or to any other destination. We have a great campaign and have
made number of contributions to different areas. As an example, last week, or last Friday, the
Premier and the member for Charlotte when down and announced $450 000 for Minister’s Island.
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That is a tourist attraction that is going to boost the tourist industry in the province There have been
very many more . . .
020 11:30
(Interjection).
Hon. Mrs. M Alpine-Stiles: Mr. Sp ac eaker, could you please ask him to be quiet?
Mr. Speaker: Members, once again, I ask that you respect the member I have recognized, please.
Minister of Tourism.
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
When you are going to market a province, you have to have a product. We are improving that
product, with the $2.3 million in the Fundy Trail, the ACTP, $724 000; the marketing development
fund in the Miramichi, Acadian Peninsula, and Restigouche-Chaleur area, $400 000; and $100 000
for restoration at le Village historique acadien. There are numerous activities.
Environmental Impact Assessment
Mr. Murphy: My question is for the Minister of Environment. I hope it would be better than the
smear response by the Minister of Education, which is pure Nixonian politics—so appalling and
disgusting. My question is this: Six months ago, the environmental impact assessment was finished,
and they now are awaiting the recommendation of the bureaucrats. It has been six months. If it goes
on any longer, we are going to lose another year. Will the Minister of Environment tell us when we
will get an answer with regard to the recommendation that will be made to the Cabinet for the option
selected?
Hon. Mr. Holder: I am not clear on what the project was. I do not think the member opposite stated
that. Maybe he can tell me what the project was.
Mr. Murphy: The minister should read his files, because he knows I have been up on this many
times. If I want an environmental impact assessment . . .
(Interjection).
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Murphy: If I want something advanced on the environment, maybe I should talk to the local
PC executive or Terry Andow or Brian Donaghy. If the minister does not know his files, he should
not be there. There has been a court order against the city of Moncton for three years to rectify the
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dump. It is contingent upon regulatory approval by the Department of Environment. That regulatory
approval cannot be forthcoming until they make a selection on the option and they restore the river.
We want our river back. Will this minister read his files? Give us an answer right now.
Hon. Mr. Holder: Now that I know what the member wants me to talk about, I can certainly answer
the question. He made the statement that the EIA process was completed. That is not true, it is not
completed. We have compiled the recent information from public consultation last year. The EIA
process will be completed shortly. I made it very clear in the past that we will come back with a
decision on this issue . . .
(Interjection).
Mr. Speaker: Member for Fredericton North, order! Several times have I spoken to the Legislature
when I recognize a member who has the floor and that member is being shown disrespect. Members,
please, when I recognize a member, please show respect. Thank you.
I recognize the Minister of Environment.
Hon. Mr. Holder: Once that EIA process is complete, recommendations will come to me as
minister. I will take those recommendations to my caucus and to my Cabinet, and we will make a
decision on it as a team at that time.
Mr. Murphy: We are asking for quicker action on this matter. The minister and his colleagues have
been able to blame the federal government, which was Liberal for many years, repeatedly about this.
I know that they have a wonderful relationship now with the federal government and with the Prime
Minister, and they will all be in the company of the Prime Minister on Saturday night. I want to
know from this minister whether he will ask the federal Minister of the Environment, Rona
Ambrose, to come down to the mudflats of the Petitcodiac River to see what destruction we have
had there for the past 40 years. Will he call her up and ask her to come down as soon as possible,
as he did for the Saint John Harbour cleanup?
Hon. Mr. Holder: I am thankful that the member opposite recognizes the great work that was done
in the harbour cleanup with the Minister of the Environment and myself. I can tell you that when
I met with her, I talked about the Saint John Harbour, I talked about Marsh Creek and the
contamination there, I talked about the Petitcodiac River, and I talked about all the files across this
province. I am proud to do that. The next chance that I get to speak to the Minister of the
Environment, I will remind her again that it is an important file for this province.
021 11:35
We are extremely committed, in this province, to our Five and Five Initiative. We are consulting
with people across this province to reduce air and water pollution over the next five years. We will
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continue to do that. We will continue to work with our federal counterparts, and I can tell you that
we will be a lot more successful on the Petitcodiac with this federal government than we were with
the last one.