QUESTION PERIOD AT THE NEW BRUNSWICK LEGISLATURE!!! < Mercredi >

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NB Power
Mr. S. Graham: My question this morning is for the Minister of Energy. Given the government’s
recent directive to NB Power to stop the practice of estimating residential power bills, it is clear that
NB Power will need to find new ways to collect meter information. Remote metering, which is
commonly used now on water meters, is one solution, but there is an opportunity to use this change
in policy to implement a metering system that will give consumers more control over their energy
costs and energy usage, leading to lower monthly electrical bills and effective energy conservation.
We are talking about a time-of-day metering system which would give consumers the option of
using less expensive electricity during nonpeak periods during the day. Just as the minister directed
NB Power to stop estimating monthly bills, will the minister direct NB Power to prioritize time-ofday
metering as part of its corporate plan?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: NB Power has had discussions of time-of-day metering. The issue that needs to
be resolved is the fact that it is not cheaper to buy your power in the middle in the night. Those
things would have to be resolved; there would have to be different categories of rates for different
times of day. There are lots of issues to deal with.
Mr. S. Graham: We recognize that the energy file is complex and that there are lots of issues to
deal with. The fact remains that it is useful for decision makers and even Cabinet ministers to
visualize a goal when they embark on new programs or regulatory initiatives. A move toward meters
that would allow for time-of-day savings on billing is a goal that combines energy conservation and
lower costs to consumers. The effectiveness of a system that delivers on both of these goals has been
proven in Nova Scotia, Ontario, South Africa, New England, Argentina, and the United Kingdom.
The time is right for our province, New Brunswick, to benefit from a time-of-day billing plan.
Does the minister know whether NB Power, the Crown corporation for which she is responsible, has
undertaken any feasibility studies or implementation plans for time-of-day metering?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: As I said earlier, it would mean a total change in the rate structure for the
province. Most homeowners do not utilize a great enough volume of electricity to find a lot of
savings at different times of the day. However, this is all being looked at; we are looking at different
metering systems. Yes, we have told the people at NB Power that they will not estimate power bills.
It is very difficult for the people of the province; they receive power bills that are totally outrageous
one month, and then, the next month, when the meters are read, they get a big reduction. One
gentleman told me that his power bill one month was $300, and the next month, because they read
the meter, it was $50.
I really believe that we are looking after the best interest of New Brunswickers. We will continue
to do that. That is one of the reasons we are looking at capping the increases that NB Power can have
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at 8% this year, in all rate categories. At the same time, we are alleviating the provincial portion of
the HST, so that homeowners have this opportunity to look at ways to improve their efficiency.
A time-of-day meter is something that can be addressed as a long-term thing to be looked at. We
need immediate solutions. We need people to be less dependent on the generation of electricity in
this province, and also to find different ways to save money.
Mr. S. Graham: I would like to remind the minister that she also has a responsibility for the longterm
goals, in terms of how we can reduce the demand for electricity in the province. Very clearly,
time-of-day metering and time-of-day billing will mean that the rate structure will have to change,
but it will be an incentive for New Brunswickers to purchase a dishwasher with a timer on it. If the
timer starts later in the evening, power can be purchased at a cheaper rate. That is the point we are
making today: We can give New Brunswickers the choice of when they can purchase electricity at
a cheaper rate, during off-peak load demand times. That is how time-of-day metering has worked
very successfully in other jurisdictions.
What we are saying today is that if the minister is admitting that the task is too big and that it will
require a long-term vision, then get out of the way, because we are prepared to take on that agenda.
My question to the minister is this: Very clearly, she has acknowledged the fact that the rate
structure would have to change. Is she prepared to instruct NB Power to look at a new rate structure
that would give New Brunswickers a choice of whether to purchase electricity at a fairer rate?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I do not know whether I am pleased to understand that the Leader of the
Opposition is concerned that people with dishwashers in the province should be able to get cheaper
rates in the middle of the night.
004 10:30
There are a lot of people in this province who do not have dishwashers. They do it by hand. Are they
going to get up in the middle of the night to do their dishes or to take a shower to get ready for
work? If time-of-day metering so that people can get discounts is all the Leader of the Opposition
has to concern himself with, I would suggest that he read the energy policy.
Mr. S. Graham: The credibility of the minister . . . If she spent as much time defending New
Brunswickers from rate shock as she did defending her parking spot, we would not be in this mess
today.
I gave the minister an example of how energy-intensive appliances could be put in place with a new
rate structure that will drive conservation and give New Brunswickers a choice. The minister chose
to play petty politics. The reality today exists that, if we give New Brunswickers the choice, such
as Nova Scotia did, Ontario did, and other countries did, then New Brunswickers can indeed save
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money. The point that we are making today is that energy-efficient appliances that have a module
attached to allow them to start at a certain time of day will indeed lessen the demand for power and
lower the price to consumers. That is the example we are using. That is what we are asking the
minister to move forward on. Is she committed to do that?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I may have to try to clarify something for the Leader of the Opposition. Most new
dishwashers that are on the market are extremely energy efficient. What we need to be addressing
are the homes that have refrigerators that are quite ancient but are still working, so that people are
looking at the amount of power that they draw. An old refrigerator can be one of the most major
energy consumers in your home. Dishwashers are, typically, quite energy efficient, running for very
short periods of time. Old refrigerators that run 24 hours a day have a tendency to drain power. I
think what I would prefer Efficiency NB to do is to focus on the old refrigerators in the province that
are sucking power, so that we are forced to spend more and have more greenhouse gas emissions,
than to worry about the more modern, up-to-date dishwashers that have the ability to work in the
middle of the night because they have timers and are extremely energy efficient to start with.
Mr. S. Graham: Unfortunately, the minister is missing the big picture. We talked about energyefficient
appliances, whether it is a washer or dryer. I am sure the minister will next stand up and
say: Oh, New Brunswickers will wash their clothes by hand at three o’clock in the morning. The
point is that our society is dependent on energy-guzzling appliances. The point that we are making
is that, as a government, if we can give a choice to consumers to purchase power at off-peak demand
load times, then that will be an incentive-based program. The point that we are making today is that
it will take the will of government to bring a program such as this to reality. If the minister is not
committed to that, then it is time that we had a new minister who is committed to giving New
Brunswickers a choice in this province.
My next question to the minister. It appears that the Orimulsion file is back on the front pages of the
newspapers. The question to the minister this morning does not pertain to the court case currently
being undertaken. Orimulsion is currently used at the Dalhousie generating station, and the contract
for the supply of this lower cost fuel runs out in 2010, only a few years away. Given that this
government has mismanaged this file, obtaining a renewal for this contract appears unlikely. The
inability to obtain a renewal would result in an increased fuel cost of at least $30 million per year,
based on the current cost of heavy fuel No. 6. This would equate to at least a 3% provincewide rate
increase, in addition to any other rate increase requested by NB Power. Does the minister have a
long-term plan for the Dalhousie generating station, other than using a more costly fuel?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I am very disappointed to see, too, that the Leader of the Opposition has written
off the ability of the province to get an Orimulsion contract for that facility. We have not written that
off. I believe that the Leader of the Opposition would prefer to be on the side of the Venezuelans
than on the side of the people of New Brunswick. We stand united over here. We are looking after
the best interests of the people of New Brunswick, and we will do that.
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005 10:40
Mr. S. Graham: Is the minister announcing today that we do have a new signed contract for 2010
for the Dalhousie generating station? That is the question I asked. That contract is set to expire in
2010. What long-term plans is the minister making, either to secure a new contract or to bring in a
replacement fuel at the same cost? That is the question that the minister has refused to answer.
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I have not refused to answer anything. The member opposite himself, the Leader
of the Opposition, said that the contract expires in 2010. It has not expired. We are working at
ensuring that we have a reliable source of fuel. NB Power is very busy, looking at alternate sources
of fuel for that facility. It does have a contract for another four years. We hope that the Leader of
the Opposition will allow NB Power the opportunity to go out and find its source of fuel, and we
believe that Orimulsion is still viable for that facility.
Mr. S. Graham: Is the minister announcing, then, that NB Power is entering into contract
negotiations for a renewal of that contract? Yes or no?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: NB Power is working on a renewal for the contract. It is also working to come
up with what is going to happen at that facility if there is no contract. I do not believe that NB Power
and I need to take direction from the Leader of the Opposition, as he seems to want more to capture
headlines. He reads about Orimulsion in the paper, and court papers indicate that NB Power had a
deal for Orimulsion. I think that concerns him, because I believe he is working hard to try to ensure
that the province of New Brunswick does not do well in a court case. He is working for Venezuela.
Mr. S. Graham: May I remind the minister this morning that it is this minister who is talking about
the current court challenge. We are talking about the Dalhousie generating station with a contract
that is set to expire in 2010, a contract that was signed by the former Liberal government.
When David Hay appeared before the Crown corporations committee, he stated that they would not
be seeking a renewal of that contract. There seems to be a contradiction of statements coming from
NB Power and from the minister this morning. My question to the minister is this. If you are on top
of this file, will you answer this question: Have New Brunswick and NB Power started negotiations
for a new contract for the Dalhousie station? Yes or no?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: The Leader of the Opposition did tell me something that I was not aware of. I was
not aware that it was the Liberal government that had signed the contract for Orimulsion. I thought
that NB Power had the authority to sign its own contracts. I did not realize the micromanaging of
NB Power that was done by the previous government.
I can understand where they are having such difficulties. NB Power is trying to manage more as a
business. If everything had to be signed by the Liberal government . . . We believe that, as a
corporation, NB Power should be managing its own affairs.
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School Safety
Mr. R. Boudreau: Our schools should be safe places for our young students, a place where they feel
secure and protected. My first question this morning is for the Minister of Public Safety. Can the
minister outline what, if any, work is being done with the Department of Education to ensure that
our children are safe in their schools?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: As we said before, we in the Department of Public Safety always make sure that
the people are safe and secure in New Brunswick.
Mr. R. Boudreau: When an individual has a list of people he wants to shoot and brings weapons
into schools, I think it is a little serious.
006 10:40
My second question is this: A number of North American jurisdictions are creating safety zones
around schools to prevent sex offenders from coming within 1 000 ft of school property. Has the
Minister of Public Safety reviewed this option? Is he looking at enacting similar provisions here in
New Brunswick?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: The Department of Public Safety works with police forces in the province of
New Brunswick. I have all the confidence in the world that they are doing whatever they have to do
to make sure that our children are safe when they go to school, and that the people of the province
of New Brunswick are safe.
Energy Conservation
Mr. MacIntyre: My question is also for the Minister of Energy. The federal budget cuts to the
EnerGuide program provide us with further evidence of the Lord government’s shortsightedness
when it comes to the energy file. It did not seem to know that significant budget cuts were being
made. The Minister of Energy states that she will be discussing this with the federal government to
try to remedy the mistake on the part of her government. It is now more than obvious that the backof-
a-napkin energy announcement was indeed a pre-election, campaign-style attempt to get votes.
The only problem is that government has to make its announcement work without its federal
partners. My question to the minister is this: How is the Minister of Energy going to make the
energy efficiency program work without the EnerGuide program in place?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: On a point of clarification, Efficiency NB has been operating in this province
since last fall. It had nothing to do with the efficiency announcements which were made in March
with regard to what we will do to help the average New Brunswicker. It is part of the picture of what
we will be doing to help New Brunswickers. I can assure the member opposite that Efficiency NB
is working. It still has all its programs in place. There are still EnerGuide contracts in place for
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houses until the end of March, 2007. I do believe that the federal government is looking at programs
which will meet the needs of Canadians, as well as the needs of New Brunswickers, for energy
efficiency. Whether it is called an EnerGuide program or is called by some other name is irrelevant,
as long as it meets New Brunswickers’ needs. We are always prepared to work with our federal
counterparts. I want to assure the member opposite that Efficiency NB and its programs are fully
supported by this province, as the opposition will see in the budget for Efficiency NB, which, this
year, is $11.9 million.
Mr. MacIntyre: The EnerGuide program is an important part of the energy efficiency program. You
cannot simply write it off, and slough it off, by saying that your programs are going to look after it.
There is a major cut here, and it is going to impact New Brunswickers. My question for the minster
is this: How can you assure New Brunswickers that the EnerGuide program will work when the
federal partners have cut the program? How are you going to assure them?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: There is still funding in the federal EnerGuide program. There is still funding,
until the end of March, 2007, for certain aspects of the program that we are utilizing. What I am
saying to the member opposite is that the province of New Brunswick supports energy efficiency
in this province, and we will do what is within our means to ensure that programs are delivered.
Efficiency NB is moving—it is business as usual, full steam ahead—to ensure that New
Brunswickers have a resource in place so that they can reduce their dependency on electricity.
Hazardous Materials
Mr. Foran: In 2001, this government purchased five HazMat trailers in order to contain dangerous
spills. Certain events, such as spills, have shown the importance of having such expertise across the
province. However, agreements and proper funding are necessary in order for municipalities to take
on such a great responsibility.
007 10:45
Year after years, the Minister of Public Safety repeated that agreements are imminent, agreements
are imminent, agreements are imminent. Can the minister advise this House where this government
is on the remainder of the HazMat trailers, or, once again, are agreements imminent?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: I would like to thank the member opposite for his question, because it gives me
an opportunity to explain to the members opposite just where we are with the agreements. We have
signed an agreement, as you know, with Fredericton. In Saint John, there is a HazMat trailer, and
the agreement will be signed within weeks. We have done everything except sign the agreement.
The other three municipalities are still working, and I will explain to the members opposite that I
will never make a municipality put its people in harm’s way until they are properly trained. When
they are properly trained, we will sign the agreement.
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Mr. Foran: Once again, it is the same answer as last time: We will have an agreement within a few
weeks in Saint John, but there is nothing even close in the other three municipalities. My second
question is fairly simple and to the point. Seeing that HazMat services are necessary for the public
safety of New Brunswick, constant funding for municipalities is required. Obviously, from the
minister’s first answer, we need training for those three municipalities. Can the minister guarantee
that funding for HazMat services will always be available, not subject to cutbacks or to downloading
of the entire responsibility onto the municipalities? Will he always report back that agreements are
imminent, agreements are imminent, as he has done once again this morning? We are no further
ahead than we were three years ago.
Hon. Mr. Steeves: I want to say that we are closer and that they still continue to train. I will let the
municipalities train their people the way that they want to train them. I will not interfere, like the
former government did, with municipal politics. I will work with them, and I will not tell them what
they are going to do. I can assure you that when they are trained, they will always have the funding
as far as this government goes. I cannot speak of what will happen if you fellows get into
government, because you did cut back on everything.
Trucking Industry
Mr. Foran: Once again, the minister entirely avoided the question and did not give a direct answer,
so I will move on to a different minister.
My question for the Minister of Transportation is: Approximately two weeks ago, I brought up the
issue of lift axles on trucks, and I spoke to the Minister of Transportation in the House. His exact
quote, if you go back to Hansard, in response to both of my questions, is that he wants to work with
me on this issue. I am not asking that the minister work with me on this issue. I am asking the
minister to work with the truckers of New Brunswick on this issue. The June 1 deadline for the
opening of the roads is fast approaching. I would like to know from the minister whether he is or
is not going to continue the moratorium on those lift axles.
Hon. Mr. Steeves: The member started his question to me, and I did answer the question. I would
refuse to force municipalities to do something until they are ready. I did answer that quite clearly.
I just wanted to point that out once again. You directed that to me that I did not answer the question.
I am answering the question, and that is the way it stands.
Child Protection
Mr. Lamrock: The AMBER Alert program is one of the most urgent programs when it is actually
needed. AMBER Alert is what allows us to work with telecommunication flyers and television
stations, so that if there is a child who goes missing or is abducted, we can instantly get information
to the public and, hopefully. get that kid home safely.
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Most U.S. states and a number of Canadian provinces are now signing agreements with wireless
providers, so that not only can we broadcast AMBER Alerts in times of urgency over television
stations, but mobile phone and cell phone users can instantly get the update. This greatly improves
the chances of a happy ending at a time when we need it. Could the Minister of Public Safety advise
this House as to whether he is currently in any discussions or negotiations with wireless providers
to extend this much-needed child safety practice to New Brunswick?
008
Hon. Mr. Steeves: I am pleased to say that, since I have become Minister of Public Safety, we have
signed agreements with AMBER Alert. We work with the AMBER Alert organization in New
Brunswick. We have had a test project, and it worked very well. I am pleased that we have people
who will continue to work with AMBER Alert, and I will work with their organization exactly the
way they wish.
Mr. Lamrock: The minister’s answer leaves me wondering what it is the minister does. Every time
we ask him a question, he says: I am confident somebody is taking care of that. I am confident they
will take care of it. This group will work on it. I will work with this group.
We do actually pay the minister a salary, and it is not just to read his briefing notes and show up and
cut ribbons. It is, at some point, actually to do something. I am wondering if he could give us the
answer again.
Here is a good idea. It is time to work on it now and not wait until we have an emergency. We
should be getting AMBER Alerts over . . . We do not want to wait as we did for booster seat
legislation or for the other suggestions the opposition has made.
Will he undertake to work with wireless providers to give children in New Brunswick the same
protection they have in other jurisdictions? If there is an urgent matter and we are trying to get a kid
home safely, will that alert go over cell phones? When will he—and not somebody else whom he
is waiting for to do something, or to do his job, for him—be prepared to move on this idea?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: As we stand in this Legislature, I see there is a big difference between this
government and the opposition. This government continues to work with . . .
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Mr. Steeves: Thank you. This government continues to work with stakeholders, continues to
work with people, and does not force people, does not force municipalities, and does not cut
municipalities’ budgets. We work with the people, and we will continue to work with the people.
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You have your way. I have my way. I am going to work with my stakeholders. I have always been
that way, and I will continue to do so.
Mr. Lamrock: I would ask that the minister send his paycheque to those stakeholders who are doing
his job for him, because he should be embarrassed to cash it, with an answer like that. The fact of
the matter is that a stakeholder was not elected. A stakeholder does not have the power to bring
about changes in AMBER Alert. In actual fact, if you check the regulations, it does not say that a
stakeholder will create deals to protect kids. It does not say some other group will show up and
provide a clue to the minister. What it says is that the minister may make deals and the minister may
make regulations and the minister may implement deals with wireless providers. It is not going to
be a lot of comfort, if we have a kid go missing, to have the minister say: Well, I am sorry. A
stakeholder did not get around to doing something to get that kid back home.
That is the difference between us and this government. We have a few people over here who would
be capable of doing the minister’s job if they had a chance to do it.
For the last time, will the minister undertake to deliver on the same deal other ministers have been
capable of and get protection for kids in New Brunswick by getting updates for AMBER Alerts over
cell phones? Other ministers did it. Why can’t you?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: As I said before, there is a big difference between this government and the
opposition. As you see over there, they are not interested in stakeholders. They are interested in their
views and their views only.
I will tell you, I am going to continue to work with stakeholders. I will continue to work with the
AMBER Alert organization. They came to me and said: This is what we would like to do. I, as a
minister, have an obligation, and I did what I said I would do. I have been known to do that, and I
will continue to work with stakeholders, contrary to what the opposition thinks we should do. That
is the difference between this government . . . We listen, and we implement what they would like
to see done. I can assure you that we will continue to do that.
Influenza
Mr. Armstrong: When animal-borne disease spreads across continents, panic often sets in;
however, this panic can be prevented with a government prepared for such disease. One such disease
that is creating panic is the avian flu. With the avian flu having devastating effects on animals and
farms and individuals, emergency plans are required in many countries, states, and provinces.
Emergency measures organizations of governments take on a greater role with respect to animalborne
diseases and preparedness.
My question to the Minister of Public Safety is this: Has your Emergency Measures Organization
taken on a role to deal with any emergencies brought on by avian flu or similar catastrophes?
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009 11:00
Hon. Mr. Alward: I am pleased to take this question. Very clearly, New Brunswick is ready to deal
with the issue of avian influenza. We have set up a task group, a working group, that is working with
the industry, with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, and with the various departments within
the provincial government. We are prepared. This summer, we will actually be going forward with
test practices to ensure that our plan is working solidly.
Mr. Speaker: Question period has ended.