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Gasoline Prices
Mr. Lamrock: It is good to hear the member for Tantramar talk about a smooth ride, because my
questions concern gas prices this morning. I was surprised to hear the member admit that he is doing
such a lousy job of retention that his constituents are moving to Manitoba.
In the latest budget, the government reversed a seven-year-old policy against gas regulation. Now,
suddenly, the government is in favour of gas regulation. Many people were very concerned that this
was another back-of-a-napkin policy, written down, like no-frills auto insurance, with no real plan,
just to solve a short-term political crisis when the government thought an election was coming. The
fact that we are now on the eve of June and we still have not seen a plan or a bill has done nothing
to allay these concerns.
Gas prices matter. They are taking too much away from the budgets of working families, and they
are hurting the ability of rural people who do shift work to get to work.
My question for the Minister of Energy is this: She has had a chance to talk to the stakeholders. She
must know what she is going to do. She wrote this plan on the back of a napkin. Did she study it
enough to give one simple guarantee? Will the average price of a litre of gas next year be lower in
New Brunswick than it is in neighbouring jurisdictions? Is the minister now able to make that
guarantee to this House? Is she willing to stake her bill and her reputation on it?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: What happens with gas regulation is that you do not try to compete with
neighbouring jurisdictions. You try to ensure that there stability at home in the price at the pump to
the people, to the consumers. You also have to be sure that you are not putting restrictions in place
that will force some of the small retailers out of business. We are not going to be in a competition
with Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia with regard to gas pricing; that would be a gas war on
a larger scale. We are going to be putting stability into prices at the pumps.
Mr. Lamrock: I think the consumers of New Brunswick would be very surprised to hear the
minister say that she does not care whether gas prices are lower in New Brunswick than they are in
Nova Scotia or in Prince Edward Island. She may say there is no competition, but when working
people are pinching pennies, I think we are in a competition to give the consumer a break. If the
minister does not get that, we have a problem.
How could the minister say that stability alone is the goal? If you want stability alone, you can
regulate it at $1.50 per litre; it will be stable, but it will be a rip-off. That is the difference between
us. This minister wants us to stabilize the price and does not care if it is a rip-off. The Liberal Party
of New Brunswick wants lower and more stable prices. That is the difference.
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Now that we know the minister has thrown price out the window and does not care if New
Brunswickers pay less, let us see if she at least cares about making sure they are getting the fairest
possible price. Many people suggest that cracking down on predatory pricing, making sure that the
wholesaler is selling to the retailer at a fair price, is a key part of making sure that the final price to
the consumer is the fairest and lowest price for New Brunswickers. Will the upcoming legislation
actually contain some oversight of predatory pricing and wholesale pricing, or does the minister just
say that the price does not matter as long as we stabilize the rip-off?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I have never stood in this Legislature and said that I did not care about the price
of gas. We are seeing the member opposite trying to put words in my mouth. The thing I do not care
about is the garbage coming out of the mouth of the member opposite. I will take no lessons from
the member opposite with regard to words.
015 10:55
I have said, and we have always said, that the consumers at the pumps want stability in prices. To
say that we could set the price at $1.50 . . . Maybe the member opposite will volunteer to pay $1.50
for a litre of gas, but I do not think the rest of New Brunswickers will. I do care. I do not care for
what is coming out of his mouth.
Mr. Lamrock: It is bad enough that this government writes policy on the back of a napkin; it is even
worse when the minister has not even bothered to read the napkin. Invective is no substitute for
information. With her response to the very first question, what the minister said was that we are not
in a competition. She even said: For the information of the member opposite. So, for my
information, it does not matter if gas prices are higher in New Brunswick than they are in Nova
Scotia and Prince Edward Island. Not to put words in her mouth, except the ones she chooses to put
in her mouth, and she might want to choose them more wisely, but I believe her exact words were:
“We are not going to be in a competition.”
I ask her again, if she can just tone the invective down and hyperventilate a little less: Will the bill
contain provisions, to make sure the price from the wholesaler is fair to the retailer before she
regulates? Will she do that? Does she know yet? Does she know what her department is working
on?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I will tone it down. If the member opposite ever had the opportunity to talk to my
children, they would say: When mother raises her voice, that is not when you should be concerned,
it is when it gets soft.
So you see, I think what we are hearing today from the member opposite is what the Liberals would
be doing if they were in power. I feel that they think that $1.50 is a fair price for the consumers of
New Brunswick. We have not even had assurances from the Leader of the Opposition if they would
regulate the price of gas when in power. We hear a lot of verbiage, but no firm commitment. Now
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we hear that they would, at $1.50 per litre. We are going to ensure that the cost is realistic in
comparison to the price of a barrel of oil.
Mr. Lamrock: So far, what we have heard from the minister . . . I have to admit that no matter how
loud or how quiet the minister’s voice is, I am concerned any time this minister is in charge of a file.
What the minister has said is that it does not matter if the price of gas is higher in New Brunswick
than it is anywhere else. She said that as long as it is stable, she does not care if it $1.50. That is an
interesting quote from the minister. Now she does not know if she is even going to have . . .
(Interjection).
Mr. Speaker: Minister of Public Safety, order please. I recognize the member for Fredericton-Fort
Nashwaak.
Mr. Lamrock: Now she does not know if her bill is going to contain anything to contain
wholesalers. Let’s see what the minister does know. One concern has been expressed by retailers
in border communities, if New Brunswick is a little different than other regulated markets. We have
three jurisdictions around us, including the state of Maine. In some markets, when the price goes
down in a regulated market, the retailers are unable to lower their prices to give consumers the best
possible opportunity.
I ask the minister: Has she consulted with retailers in border communities who are worried about
their ability to stay competitive if prices go down and the bureaucracy is too slow to let them drop
prices for their consumers? What will be in this legislation to protect jobs and consumers in the
border communities of New Brunswick?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: The member opposite is still trying to say that I do not care. The only thing I have
said that I do not care about is the garbage coming forth from the opposition. You see, I have not
had an opportunity to speak with all the retailers in the province and deal with them all, because we
are in the Legislature. As you know, although this is a vitally important issue, we have not been able
to have pairing arrangements to go out and deal with these things. I have relied upon the staff of the
department to discuss these issues. I have also spoken to my colleagues at border communities. We
are looking at these things.
These are our concerns. We are trying to address the concerns. There are two ways that this can be
done in regard to legislation, as the member opposite knows. We can introduce a new piece of
legislation, or we can proclaim a piece that is currently on the books in regard to gas price
regulations. That has not yet been done. We are still pursuing this. We are trying to ensure that all
concerns are addressed.
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016 11:00
Under the legislation that we are proposing, it would be the Public Utilities Board that would do the
gas price regulations. If we write everything down in too heavy detail and make the legislation too
restrictive, then the Public Utilities Board would not be able to deal with emerging issues. We try
to ensure that the legislation will be flexible enough to allow the Public Utilities Board to meet these
issues.
Power Rebate
Mr. Burke: There is another example of policy on the fly by this government. Last week, the
Minister of Finance advised New Brunswickers to keep their heating bills because they may need
to provide them to get their tax refunds. Unfortunately, this is contrary to the at-source rebate
initiative that the Premier suggested would take place when the rebate program was announced.
Some homes heat with multiple sources, such as propane and natural gas, so some homeowners will
need to provide multiple receipts when the rebate program actually comes into effect. Can the
Minister of Finance tell the people of New Brunswick whether the program will be an at-source
rebate like the Premier promised, or a tax refund as he indicated to the media last week?
L’hon. M. Volpé : C’est une très bonne question à laquelle j’ai répondu à plusieurs reprises. Si le
député de Fredericton-Nord avait été à la Chambre, il aurait pu comprendre la réponse. La réponse
est facile : On veut donner le rabais de 8 % aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick. On a dit très
clairement qu’on allait trouver la façon la plus efficace, la plus économique et la plus rapide pour
donner accès à ce rabais de 8 % sur la taxe harmonisée. Dans certains cas, certaines personnes
utilisent plusieurs produits. Il y a des gens qui livrent le produit. Si on demande de donner le rabais
à la source, ces livreurs devront absorber les coûts. Il y a des négociations actuellement. Alors, c’est
très clair, c’était même dans les journaux. On va demander aux gens de conserver leurs reçus. On
l’a déjà fait pour le mazout, il y a déjà un système en place qui fonctionne très bien. En dedans de
quelques jours de la réception des reçus, les gens recevront leur chèque. Alors, on a un plan en place.
Si on peut trouver des façons plus rapides et plus efficaces, on va les mettre en place.
Mr. Burke: I know that the Minister of Finance commented about my being in the House. I
certainly do not need lessons from this minister about being in the House. What is important is
working for the people of New Brunswick, working for your riding, and working for your
constituents, not coming to this Legislature and listening to empty rhetoric by this minister. I hear
them over there heckling in their $2 000 suits and sports cars, and I need none of it.
I wish to read a news release dated March 27, 2006, issued by the Premier’s Office, on the very
subject matter that I asked about. I quote from the Premier’s own press release:
“We have heard the clear message from New Brunswickers that they need some assistance to meet
the ongoing challenges of energy costs,” Lord said. “I am very pleased with the package we have
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put together, and we believe that it will help enormously in providing much-needed relief to New
Brunswickers.”
This program was supposed to be put in place on July 1, 2006, and it is yet to be put in place. My
first supplementary question to the Minister of Finance is this: When will this government ensure
that the ratepayers of the province of New Brunswick get the at-source rebate that this government
promised them?
L’hon. M. Volpé : Je semble avoir touché un point sensible. En français, on dit souvent que la vérité
choque. Cependant, je n’irai pas de ce coté-là. On a un plan qui est très clair. À partir du 1er juillet,
les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick pourront recevoir un crédit de 8 % sur la taxe harmonisée qu’ils
paient sur toutes les sources de chauffage au Nouveau-Brunswick, que ce soit le propane, le gaz
naturel, l’électricité, le mazout ou le bois de chauffage. S’ils ont payé la taxe harmonisée de 15 %,
la partie provinciale de 8 % sera remboursée. C’est très clair. À partir du 1er juillet, les gens
conserveront leurs reçus et auront droit à un rabais à deux reprises durant l’année. Ils pourront
demander un rabais en décembre, avant Noël, pour la période de juillet à la fin novembre. Ensuite,
ils pourront demander un rabais pour la période de décembre à la fin mars. À cette date, si on a
trouvé des façons plus rapides et plus efficaces avec des livreurs pour donner le service à la source,
on les mettra en place.
017 11:05
Mr. Burke: This is somewhat of a similar situation to the one we found ourselves in a few years
ago. This government likes to promise things for July 1, for some reason. I recall that, a few years
ago, on July 1, 2003, automobile insurance rates were supposed to come down. Now, on July 1,
2006, HST rebates are supposed to take place. Guess what? This government likes to promise
something one day and break that promise the very next day. It appears once again that Premier Lord
and his government are using NB Power as a political football by announcing programs that they
never intended to implement. Fortunately, the people of this province are going to realize that they
are going to take this government and punt it down the line at the 2007 election.
My final supplementary question for the Minister of Finance is this. Why did he have to wait until
last week, pressed in question period, to announce that the delay in the program was going to take
place when he had participated in the discussions about the rebate program in the first place?
L’hon. M. Volpé : Une fois de plus, si le député de Fredericton-Nord avait été à la Chambre, il
aurait reçu la même réponse qu’aujourd’hui — exactement la même réponse —, sauf que c’est
quelqu’un d’autre qui a posé la question.
En ce qui a trait à l’engagement du gouvernement provincial, celui-ci a été que, à partir du 1er juillet,
les gens qui vont payer 8 % sur des produits de chauffage vont recevoir le remboursement. Toutes
les promesses qui ont été faites par notre premier ministre ont été tenues, contrairement à l’ancien
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gouvernement. Je me souviens très bien que, en 1995, à la télévision de Radio-Canada, le premier
ministre McKenna et le ministre des Transports avaient annoncés qu’il n’y aurait pas de postes de
péage au Nouveau-Brunswick. Toutefois, en moins de six mois, il y avait des postes de péage. Je
me rappelle aussi d’un engagement qui avait été pris pour augmenter les montants d’argent pour les
collèges communautaires. Après les élections, l’ancien gouvernement libéral a réduit les fonds aux
collèges communautaires. L’ancien gouvernement avait aussi pris un engagement pour réduire les
impôts des particuliers, mais il les ont augmentés. Nous n’avons certainement pas de leçon à
recevoir de la part des parlementaires du côté de l’opposition.
Prescription Drugs
Mr. V. Boudreau: The official opposition has led the charge on issues relating to e-health, such as
the prescription drug monitoring program and electronic health records. We feel that the Lord
government is not moving fast enough, despite millions of dollars being made available by the
federal government through the Canada Health Infoway program. The Office of E-Health recently
made a presentation to the New Brunswick Medical Society regarding e-health projects. When
referring to prescription drug monitoring, it was stated through the society’s newsletter that Phase
1 will be a monitoring system for a limited group of drugs. We have talked about this for years, and
all this government can come up with in the way of progress is a Phase 1 project that is going to take
in a few drugs—no dates, no comprehensive plan, nothing. Can the Minister of Health provide this
House with a clear target date for when New Brunswickers can expect a fully operational, wideranging
prescription drug monitoring program?
Hon. Mr. Green: My response today is exactly the same as it was a few weeks ago when I was
asked the same question. We have work well under way on establishing a prescription drug
monitoring program here in New Brunswick. In terms of a timeline, our best-case scenario for the
implementation of a program is now at about 10 to 10 and a half months. At the outside, it is about
22 months. We are working with our stakeholders, in particular with the pharmacists in the province.
That work is going well. As is the case with every other commitment our government makes, this
one will be fulfilled.
Electronic Medical Records
Mr. V. Boudreau: The reason we keep asking the same questions is that we never get any answers.
When they talk about fulfilling initiatives and promises, this is another one: the electronic health
records that I mentioned earlier. This government has again dropped the ball on this issue, and we
now seem to have received third-party validation of our concerns. The most recent newsletter from
the New Brunswick Medical Society recapped the presentation from the Office of E-Health. When
talking about electronic health records, it stated that the current focus for the intraoperable electronic
health record “is the development of the capability for health care providers to access a consolidated
view of specific patient information generated by hospitals”.
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018 11:10
“View” is the key word because there is still no provincial game plan for the development of
interfaces between the hospitals’ information system and electronic medical records in physicians’
offices. In fact, there is no mention of EMRs in the current list of provincial e-health projects. In the
absence of a provincial plan addressing the issue of EMRs, individual regional health authorities,
to date, have been putting off requests from physicians to develop interfaces for their particular
EMR product.
Again, this is third-party validation. Why does the minister continue to insist that something is being
done on this issue, when it is clear by the bulletin put forward by the New Brunswick Medical
Society that it is not the case?
Hon. Mr. Green: We are making good progress on the development of electronic health records.
I had a discussion just yesterday with one of the individuals working with our department on this
specific project. He recently participated in a meeting with representatives of all regional health
authorities and the surgeons in the province, talking about the work that we are doing. An electronic
health record is a very large challenge for any government, but we are making good progress.
One element of an electronic health record is a diagnostic imaging archive. That is already well
under way. Another component is the prescription drug monitoring program. We have been talking
about that, and that is well under way. Work between the regional health authorities is well under
way. Once again, this is a very concrete example of the very positive progress that we are making
in New Brunswick as a result of our provincial health plan, Healthy Futures, and the $1.9-billion
investment that we are making this fiscal year in the health of New Brunswickers.
Mr. V. Boudreau: Based on the bulletin put out by the New Brunswick Medical Society, I do not
think that it seems to think that everything is well under way. These are just two more examples of
commitments made as part of the provincial health plan that are not being honoured. This minister
refuses to admit that there are flaws in this government’s health plan and that this plan is not
reaching all of its targets. We are halfway through a four-year health plan. Certain initiatives have
not yet even been acted on. I could on and name many more. Can the minister provide this House
with an updated and revised health plan before the end of this spring session?
Hon. Mr. Green: Virtually any time I am asked a question in this House on a health-related matter,
it touches upon the provincial health plan. In the three months since I have become Minister of
Health, I have been traveling throughout this province, meeting with stakeholders and participating
in announcements and initiatives directly related to the provincial health plan. I have talked about
one earlier today. That is the Smoke-free Places Act. That is part of the provincial health plan.
Recently, we opened the third cath lab in Saint John. That is part of the provincial health program.
Our recruitment and retention initiatives with physicians in the province had, last month, a net gain
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of 214 physicians over 1999. That is part of the provincial health program. That list of successes is
far longer than anything about which the member opposite can complain.
Publicité touristique
M. R. Boudreau : Le samedi 6 mai dernier, une publicité promotionnelle d’une pleine page a été
publiée dans le journal La Presse, de Montréal. Cette publicité avait comme objectif de vanter les
attraits touristiques de la province afin d’inciter les gens du Québec à venir visiter notre belle
province. Dans la publicité en question, on donne de l’information sur la région de Fredericton, le
Village historique de Kings Landing, les régions de Fundy et de Moncton, la ville de Miramichi
ainsi que Golf N.-B. Ma question pour la ministre du Tourisme et des Parcs est la suivante :
Pourquoi les régions au nord de la Miramichi ont-elles été exclues de cette publicité?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: I do not have that particular document in front of me, but I do know
that, in certain programs that are offered through the Department of Tourism and Parks, as part of
our marketing and advertizing campaign, the different regions of the province are invited to buy into
that program. I am not sure which one the member opposite is discussing or has put forth, but I
would be glad to look into that and find out if that was one, indeed, that would have to have a buy-in
from the municipality in question.
I am not sure, as I have said, because I do not have it in front of me today, but that is very often the
case. We offer to all of the areas of the province, as part of our marketing campaign, an opportunity
to buy into the program. That may be the reason why one particular area did not participate in that
program.
M. R. Boudreau : Peu importe le programme, vous êtes la ministre et la personne responsable de
ce qui se passe dans votre ministère. Je vous demande pourquoi vous n’êtes pas intervenue afin de
vous assurer que chaque région de la province serait bien représentée. Pourquoi?
019 11:15
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: It is, indeed, a pleasure for me to rise and talk about tourism in the
province of New Brunswick and about the marketing campaigns that are ongoing from this year and
last year. We will continue to improve on these as the years go by. Each year, Tourism and Parks
implements and puts into place a marketing plan that involves extremely aggressive marketing. It
reaches not only the Ontario and Quebec markets, but also the French, European, northeast United
States and United Kingdom markets. We have been doing very, very well with our marketing
campaign. With regard to New Brunswick, all regions of the province are well represented. I believe
that we have a comprehensive marketing plan that covers every section of the province. Each section
is highlighted with the wonderful attractions that that section of New Brunswick has to offer.
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M. R. Boudreau : Madame la ministre, en 2005, le Nouveau-Brunswick a dépensé au total 1,8
million en publicité au Québec. En 2004, notre province a accueilli 1 760 000 visiteurs, dont 19 %
venaient du Québec. Étant donné que la région de Campbellton est l’une des deux portes d’entrée
pour les Québécois qui visitent le Nouveau-Brunswick, ne croyez-vous pas que cette région mérite
une attention particulière au même titre que la région du Madawaska?
Hon. Mrs. M Alpine-Stiles: As the member opposite ac knows, we had a slight discussion about this
in the estimates process. Yes, the Campbellton area is an extremely important area of the province,
as is each area of New Brunswick. We continue to work with the municipality and with the region
to promote that very important area of the province. It is a beautiful place to be; everyone knows
that. New Brunswick is blessed with beautiful scenery, wonderful industry, and wonderful people.
That is what makes us what we are. We have highlighted the different areas of the province. We will
continue to work with the Campbellton area to promote this very important area of New Brunswick,
as we do with every section within the tourism industry.
Plan provincial de la santé
M. Albert : Ma question est pour le ministre de la Santé. Le plan de santé annoncé par le
gouvernement le 3 mars 2004 pour la Péninsule acadienne n’a pas pris en considération les besoins
d’une population de plus de 50 000 personnes et d’une population rurale et éloignée. Avec le plan
de santé, le gouvernement Lord a éliminé des services essentiels si durement acquis pour la
Péninsule acadienne. À l’hôpital de Caraquet, il y a eu la perte des services de chirurgie et
d’anesthésie, des services obstétriques, d’accouchement et de pédiatrie, de son statut d’hôpital, il
y a eu la perte de tous les lits, de l’urgence 24 heures sur 24, de la cafétéria et de plus de 100
emplois. Une des raisons majeures de ces réductions était de faire des économies. Après deux ans
de fonctionnement, combien d’argent la Régie régionale de la santé 6 et le gouvernement ont-ils
économisé?
Hon. Mr. Green: It comes as quite a surprise that after all the time that has passed, after all the
discussion that has taken place surrounding the Provincial Health Plan, the member opposite still
does not seem to grasp the reason for the Provincial Health Plan. It was not to save money. The
reason for the Provincial Health Plan was to invest more wisely in health care in the province. Our
spending on health care is increasing each and every year in this province. This year, $1.9 billion
was spent on health care and $2.46 billion was spent on senior care. The member opposite is
focusing on what he feels the hospital in Caraquet lost, instead of focusing on the new services
available to the people of the Acadian Peninsula, who have a community health centre in Caraquet.
That is a long list, and one that I have read on the floor of this House before.
M. Albert : Le plan de santé n’est pas juste pour ma région. L’ancien ministre de la Santé, Elvy
Robichaud, a dit que c’était pour atteindre les objectifs financiers. Voilà la raison. On réduit les
soins et le nombre d’emplois pour faire des économies dans une région qui en a tellement besoin,
c’est cela? La réalité avec ce plan de santé, c’est que, en 2004-2005, la régie 6 a eu un déficit de 2,5
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millions et que, en 2005-2006, elle a eu un déficit de 5,5 millions. C’est un déficit de plus de 8
millions. Pourtant, dans les rapports de la régie 6 et du gouvernement, on prévoyait des économies
de 4 millions, soit une différence de 12 millions. On réduit pour économiser et cela coûte plus cher?
Où est la logique? N’ont-ils pas un plan de vision? Pourquoi n’avez-vous pas atteint vos objectifs,
Monsieur le ministre? Qu’allez-vous faire pour corriger cette situation?
020 11:20
Hon. Mr. Green: On the one hand, the member opposite is suggesting that we have made cuts
trying to save money, and on the other hand, he is talking about deficits being run. Those two
concepts simply do not go together. Let’s talk about some of the investments we, as a government,
have made in northeastern New Brunswick as a result of the provincial health plan. Let’s talk about
the expansion currently under way at the Chaleur hospital in Bathurst. Let’s talk about the new MRI
machine servicing that region of the province and the two adjoining regions. Let’s talk about the
expansion taking place at the emergency room at the Tracadie hospital. Let’s talk about the new
satellite dialysis unit that is going to be serving the Acadian Peninsula this summer. The investments
that our government is making in health care on the Acadian Peninsula and in each and every other
region of this province are having a positive effect. We are going to continue implementing that
health plan, because that plan is working.
Special Needs Adults
Mr. Foran: The Miramichi Association for Community Living is an organization on the Miramichi
that is part of a provincial body. Mr. Speaker, this organization, as I am sure you are well aware, has
a program for 10 adult special needs people. Its funding is coming to a close in the next few days,
and it is going to have to close its doors. These people have been working with the four Miramichi
MLAs and have not had any progress to date. My question to the Minister of Family and
Community Services is this: Will funding be forthcoming before it closes its doors at the end of this
week?
L’hon. Mme Dubé : Comme vous le savez, nous avons plusieurs programmes et plusieurs services
que nous améliorons toujours dans toute la province. Pour ce qui est du cas spécifique que le député
porte à mon attention ce matin, cela me fera plaisir de lui en reparler après avoir vérifié les faits.
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