ORAL QUESTIONS 10 QUESTIONS ORALES
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012 13:40
Fermetures d’usines
M. P. Robichaud : Depuis maintenant plusieurs mois, la province du Nouveau-Brunswick assiste
à de nombreuses fermetures dans l’industrie forestière qui se traduisent par des milliers de pertes
d’emploi. On pourrait même dire que le gouvernement actuel détient le record du plus grand nombre
de fermetures dans l’industrie forestière en un an jamais vu dans un gouvernement auparavant.
Jamais les citoyens du Nouveau-Brunswick n’ont été témoins d’une telle situation.
Ma question s’adresse cet après-midi au ministre responsable de l’Initiative pour le nord du
Nouveau-Brunswick. Étant donné la situation avec laquelle le Nord est aux prises, hier encore, le
maire de la ville de Miramichi a dit que c’était une situation très dramatique et très critique. Ma
question pour le ministre responsable de l’Initiative pour le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick est la
suivante. Quelle est votre vision et celle de votre gouvernement pour affronter cette situation et pour
mettre un frein à cette hémorragie de fermetures et de pertes d’emploi dans le nord du Nouveau-
Brunswick?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: As I stated earlier,
of course, the Premier and the Minister of Natural Resources
are in Montreal, meeting with AbitibiBowater as we speak, to deal with issues surrounding the
decision on the closure, and, of course, to see whether there is an opportunity to maintain that asset.
In addition, of course, as I have indicated, the Premier and the Solicitor General will also be meeting
in the Miramichi tomorrow following question period, to meet with stakeholders in that community.
We acted swiftly to deal with some of the issues in Miramichi. For example, we immediately formed
an adjustment committee and an action committee. We assigned additional resources to economic
diversification. We have made major expenditures in the area to date, with more to come. Post-
Secondary Education, Training and Labour provided $145 000 for the start-up of a transition centre.
We have also provided $370 000 to Fatkat Animation Studios to create 35 jobs. In addition, we have
provided $7.5 million to Atcon to create another 150 jobs. We have created 207 jobs with Hostopia,
and we will continue to diversify the economy in all areas of the north, to deal with job losses.
M. P. Robichaud : C’est bien de se rendre à Montréal pour rencontrer les propriétaires une fois
l’usine fermée, mais l’action d’un gouvernement doit se faire avant la fermeture de l’usine et les
pertes d’emploi. Le gouvernement actuel détient le record dans les fermetures d’usines et les pertes
d’emploi en un an. Dans l’histoire humaine, on n’a jamais vu autant de fermetures d’usines et de
pertes d’emploi dans une région comme le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick que depuis l’arrivée au
pouvoir de ce gouvernement. Le gouvernement réalisera-t-il la situation actuelle de la région du
Nord? Le gouvernement mettra-t-il en place des initiatives spécifiques au nord du Nouveau-
Brunswick? Vous ne l’avez pas encore fait et vous tardez à le faire. Les pertes d’emploi sont
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attribuables à votre inaction. Le ministre ou quiconque veut répondre peut-il expliquer votre vision
pour mettre un frein à cette hémorragie de pertes d’emploi et à cette hémorragie de fermetures
d’usines que subit le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick présentement?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: We have been working actively to bring new economic development opportunities
to the north. For example, we have just invested in Blue Note Mining, creating 270 jobs through a
$15-million investment. We will continue to seek out new opportunities, and we have been
proactive. Yes, the forest industry has been facing many challenges—challenges with the dollar,
challenges with increased competition worldwide. This government has been proactive. We came
to the table with Bowater and put a significant sum of money on the table. We came to the table with
UPM and put a significant sum of money on the table. Unfortunately, those industries were not
willing to invest. We came to the table in Campbellton with AV Cell, and that company was willing
to come to the table. As a result, we have created more jobs and saved existing jobs for the long
term.
M. P. Robichaud : J’aurais honte d’être assis de ce côté-là de la Chambre et d’applaudir l’inaction
du gouvernement, surtout lorsque les plus grands applaudissements viennent des députés et des
ministres du Nord. Jamais on a vu dans l’histoire du Nouveau-Brunswick autant de fermetures et
de pertes d’emploi en un an. Ce gouvernement peut s’en vanter. De plus, il a le culot de s’attribuer
le mérite de ce qui va bien, quand ces initiatives ont été mises en place lorsqu’on était au
gouvernement, telles que les mines dans la région de Bathurst.
Le ministre admettra-t-il que, finalement, ce qui se passe présentement dans le Nord fait son affaire,
parce que c’est exactement la vision de Francis McGuire? Il veut fermer le Nord, apporter tout dans
le Sud et créer des emplois dans des régions à concentration urbaine. Le ministre admettra-t-il que
cela fait l’affaire du gouvernement? Éliminons les emplois dans le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick. Le
gouvernement admettra-t-il que, finalement, ce qui se passe dans le Nord, c’est la vision de Francis
McGuire accélérée de plusieurs années? Le ministre admettra-t-il que le gouvernement ne fait rien,
absolument rien, pour mettre fin à cette hémorragie de pertes d’emploi et de fermetures d’usines
dans le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick?
013 13:45
Hon. Mr. Byrne: There are specific economic development funds in place in the north, just because
the government believes that economic activity and job creation is a priority for the north. We are
working, every day, to bring in new opportunities for the north. It is unfortunate that the climate is
such in the forest industry that we are seeing these job losses. However, that motivates us even more
to work harder to bring in new opportunities. We will continue to give priority to those areas that
have significant job losses, including the area of Dalhousie, the area of Miramichi, and other areas
throughout the north.
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Mr. Ashfield: My questions are for the Minister of Business New Brunswick—or at least one of my
questions is. The minister was very quick to take credit for Blue Note Metals. That is a deal that we
signed, one that we were happy to sign. There has been little activity on the part of this government
in terms of actual job creation.
You talk about having a lot of money on the table with Bowater and UPM. We know that there was
a $10-million proposal made to Bowater. I would like to know what the proposal made to UPM was
and what kinds of deals you offered UPM. Are you prepared to table those today?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: For the purpose of clarification, the funding that was provided to Blue Note
Metals came from this government and this Cabinet, not the previous administration. It was this
government that made the deal with Blue Note Mining, to clarify that record.
We made a significant multimillion-dollar offer to UPM. At the time, UPM was talking about the
possibility of a new paper machine. It was talking about a boiler conversion, to biomass. It was
talking about a new groundwood mill. This government is on record. We came to the table very
early on with UPM, and we were hopeful that the company was prepared to invest in its future.
Unfortunately, it was not.
Mr. Ashfield: I would remind the minister that the Blue Note deal was signed in July 2006, and I
was personally there to sign that deal. We made the deal. My next question . . .
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order. Let’s hear the question.
Mr. Ashfield: My next question is for the Minister of Post-Secondary Education, Training and
Labour. How many of the people who have become unemployed at the UPM operation in Miramichi
have found work in the Miramichi, or anywhere in New Brunswick? I know that the McGuire report
says that commuting to Moncton could be an option. However, Fort McMurray is a long commute
on a daily basis. How many people who have become disenfranchised at the UPM mill have actually
found employment?
Hon. Mr. Doherty: Of course, as a result of the adjustment committee and the transition centre, we
have been very successful. So far, 131 displaced workers have found full-time employment.
Power Rates
Mr. Alward: I have been working with farmers, and they are very concerned about the high cost
of electricity. In fact, farm leaders are so concerned that they have appeared before the Public
Utilities Board. Of particular concern to producers is the suggested recommendation to the PUB that
it change rate categories for farmers from residential to general service. This move would increase
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rates by as much as 30% and would have devastating effects for our farmers. My question is for the
Minister of Agriculture. Is he aware of this recommendation?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I would like to thank the member opposite for the question. As he knows, there is
a process in place now with the EUB. Those cost allocations will be looked at by the Energy and
Utilities Board. As he knows, there is a hearing taking place now on the increases for which NB
Power has an application in, and part of that process is for the EUB to take a look at that cost
allocation.
M. Alward : Ce n’était pas une question très difficile à répondre, mais, comme d’habitude, le
ministre n’a pas de réponse.
Le coût de l’électricité et de l’énergie sont des facteurs importants pour l’exploitation d’une ferme
au Nouveau-Brunswick.
014 13:50
Cet après-midi, est que le ministre peut assurer les fermiers du Nouveau-Brunswick qu’il n’y aura
pas de changement dans la catégorie des tarifs, ce qui nécessaire et vraiment important pour nos
producteurs et productrices?
Hon. Mr. Keir: As I have already mentioned, there is a process in place. There is no question that
electricity rate increases impact all industry across the board, in the agriculture and forestry sectors.
We understand that impact. That is why it is important that we allow the process to take place before
the EUB. The EUB takes a third-party, independent look at this, and it will come with its decision
very soon.
Mr. Alward: The minister, today, is failing to stand up for New Brunswickers. In fact, all members
on the opposite side, including the Minister of Agriculture, are failing to stand up for the farmers
of New Brunswick. We all know that the high dollar and high energy costs are having a huge impact
on our resource sectors, whether it be in forestry or manufacturing. Our farmers are also facing
unprecedented challenges to their very existence. A 30% increase in power rates will kill farms. Will
the minister commit today to our farmers that there will be no changes to the rate categories charged
to New Brunswick farms? Again, I will give you a second try at it.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I will take a second try at getting through to the member opposite the exact process
that has to take place. The previous government, the folks sitting over there and hollering now, are
the ones who put this process in place. Let’s allow the process to take place, let the Energy and
Utilities Board, as a third-party independent, look at who this is going to impact and look at how
these energy electricity rates are going to impact folks, and let it make its decision.
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Legislation
Mr. Mockler: I am not surprised by that minister who does not want to answer. I think the people
of New Brunswick will remember that, just a few days ago, he postponed the adjournment of a
debate for the people of New Brunswick in order to help the most vulnerable in New Brunswick.
However, I know where they stand when it is time to help their Liberal friends, whether it is
Claudette Bradshaw, Lenihan, McGuire, or Lepage, or even a $60 000 grant from the taxpayers of
New Brunswick for the caisses populaires. I think that is shameful. I am asking if the Government
House Leader would work in cooperation with us for the people of New Brunswick and accept what
we are offering right now, immediately, in order to help the most vulnerable in this province. We
want to fast-track Bill 6 immediately so we can help people at Christmas.
Hon. V. Boudreau: The member opposite is playing games with everybody. We all know the
discussions that have taken place. There is a process that we follow here in the Legislature to deal
with various pieces of legislation. I am going to reiterate that we made the decision about cancelling
the HST rebate because we felt it was not a sound policy. We have to focus on the energy efficiency
programs. As I have said many times, as opposed to subsidizing an electricity bill that is already too
high, we want to work with New Brunswickers, whether it be in their homes, in their businesses, or
in their industries, to help them bring down their overall electricity rate, as opposed to subsidizing
one that is already too high.
Mr. Mockler: I was in my office in Restigouche-la-Vallée on Saturday and yesterday. The people
who came to see me . . . There is no doubt in my mind that people have been in your own offices.
We know on this side of the House what they ask us. The people of New Brunswick have to choose
between putting food on the table, buying medication, or heating the house. This is not acceptable
at a time when we had a Premier who said to the people of New Brunswick, and I will quote . . .
Another broken promise. He has the ball to stand up, or to sit and do nothing.
015 13:55
The people of New Brunswick want Bill 6 immediately, so that we can help the most vulnerable in
New Brunswick. Now is the time, Mr. Tax Man.
Hon. V. Boudreau: I am not going to get into the references that the member opposite just made.
I am going to say, as I have said before, that this government has done more for low-income people
than the former government had done in the seven years it was there. We do have a heating rebate
program in place for the low-income earners, and for the most vulnerable of our society. We have
doubled the low-income seniors’ benefits, like we said we would. We have raised the minimum
wage three times since taking office. These are the types of things we have been doing to assist lowincome
earners, our seniors, and our working poor in New Brunswick, and we will continue to do
more.
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Le président : Monsieur le député de Restigouche-la-Vallée, lorsque vous avez posé votre question,
j’espère que vous avez mentionné le mot « gall » et non le mot « ball ». S’il s’agit du mot « gall »,
ce dernier est acceptable, alors que l’autre mot est antiparlementaire. Je m’excuse. Continuez.
M. Mockler : Merci, Monsieur le président. Le ministre des Finances et ce gouvernement ont les
mains dans les poches des contribuables du Nouveau-Brunswick. Il s’agit de taxe après taxe.
Le ministre des Finances a l’audace de se lever et de dire que le projet de loi 6 n’est pas représentatif
pour venir en aide aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick. Afin de venir en aide aux gens les plus
vulnérables du Nouveau-Brunswick, ceux qui gagnent moins de 18 000 $ par année et ceux qui
reçoivent l’aide au revenu, on demande au ministre et au gouvernement si le projet de loi 6 pourrait
être réintroduit à la Chambre, afin qu’il soit adopté et qu’on puisse donner 100 $ immédiatement aux
gens du Nouveau-Brunswick qui souffrent. Voilà la question que je pose au ministre. Comprend-il
qu’il y a des gens qui sont chez eux et qui doivent choisir entre acheter des médicaments, mettre de
la nourriture sur la table ou acheter du mazout pour leur fournaise? Le ministre des Finances a-t-il
l’audace de se lever et de dire : Oui, nous voulons travailler avec les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick?
M. V. Boudreau : Cela démontre encore une fois les tactiques théâtrales que le député de
Restigouche-la-Vallée utilisent. Il nous pose des questions sur le projet de loi 6, qui est notre projet
de loi. Le projet de loi 25 est leur projet de loi. Le député d’en face ne porte même pas attention au
projet de loi dont il parle à la Chambre. Il est en train de nous poser des questions sur notre propre
projet de loi que nous avons l’intention de faire adopter. S’il était si sérieux et si préoccupé pour les
gens de cette province, peut-être qu’il porterait attention et qu’il ferait référence au bon projet de loi.
Parks
Mr. Urquhart: My question will be for the Minister of Business New Brunswick. Why is this
government so intent on throwing Fred Paget out of Woolastook Park, even after Mr. Paget has met
all obligations of his lease? He has supplied the government that the tax department advises there
is no problem with them. He has provided a statement from the chief electrical inspector advising
the park is, and has been, safe under their regulation. He has provided proof that he has met all
conditions of the provincial tourism standard. The DNR has advised that its only issue was with the
taxes, and it was not an issue. We have a commitment from the Minister of Tourism that he was
willing to give Mr. Paget another chance. Will the government do the right thing, reverse the
decision, and give Mr. Paget his lease back?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: For purposes of clarification, this is not a matter that falls within the purview of
the Department of Business New Brunswick. It is my understanding that it involves a lease that is
under the purview of the Department of Natural Resources. It also perhaps involved the tourism
grading authority, which licenses parks, or provides authority for parks to operate. I would certainly
take this matter under advisement to my colleague, the Minister of Natural Resources.
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Just to clarify, and I know my learned friend is asking me about an issue on this, when this matter
first came to my attention, it was the result of constituents who had campers or trailers in the park.
016 14:00
They had been advised that the lease on that facility had been terminated, and they would have to
remove their trailers by December 12. I was subsequently advised by the Department of Natural
Resources that that would not be the case. Yes, the lease had been terminated, but the campers
would be allowed to maintain their trailers at the park. I am very thankful to the minister for that.
Mr. Urquhart: It was my understanding that this province is broken up into areas. We have area
ministers who are responsible to the people in the area. I was under the understanding that this
minister was responsible for that. My question, again, is: Who has the minister lined up to take over
Woolastook Park? Fred Paget has proven that he has met all the conditions of his lease. He has
brought that park from a cow pasture, when the government owned it, to over 130 seasonal
residents, many of which are in the House today. He has brought in a bluegrass festival, dog shows,
and trailer shows.
Some 200 people showed up at a support rally in the middle of the winter. A week before Christmas,
they show up here in the people’s House. At all times, they support him. When you refused to sit
down and discuss this professionally, he refused to sit with any number of our ministers. Every one
of us has asked to meet him step by step, and he has been refusing. Again, we ask: If it is not Fred,
obviously, it is a Liberal friend. Who do they have lined up for Woolastook Park?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: It is my understanding that an RFP has been called, or will be called. There will
be an opportunity for anyone to bid under that RFP. I believe that the member and some of his
colleagues had an opportunity to meet with officials of the Department of Natural Resources
recently, where the reasons for its actions were outlined specifically to those members. I think they
are in a position to shed some light on that themselves, based on that meeting.
Mr. Urquhart: The only people that we could get to meet were staff from DNR. The only issue that
they had was $7 600 for taxes. We have a letter from the tax department, saying that it was for this
year’s taxes only. How is this government planning on compensating Mr. Paget for over $600 000
in improvements and over $100 000 for a loan from Southwest Valley, on the condition of this? He
has been thrown out, through no fault of his own. He deserves to be compensated fairly.
Does the government intend to put his family and him in personal bankruptcy? Will he lose
everything that he has ever worked for, just to look after one of their own friends? This is the dirty
part of politics. Mr. Paget deserves to be treated better than this. He has the support of the
community. He has the support of the province. People have lined up at that park to help him.
Everyone who has come into contact . . . Instead of running around behind him, trying to throw him
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out, get in front of him. Show a bit of leadership, and help him put that park where you want it to
be.
Hon. Mr. Byrne: While I can appreciate the member’s desire to grandstand, certainly, the member
who met specifically with the Department of Natural Resources would be well aware why the
actions were taken by that department. It is my understanding—again, I am not aware of the
specifics—that there has been some history of noncompliance. I believe that letters had been sent
out to the operator, including letters from the previous minister of Natural Resources, whose name
escapes me, but who, I believe, may be a federal candidate.
Mr. Carr: Again, we see the minister becoming very political over this issue, and it is no surprise
that the campers in the gallery are very upset and furious with this government. In fact, six MLAs
of the opposition met with officials at DNR, trying to work cooperatively with the regional Minister
of Business New Brunswick, with the Minister of Tourism and Parks, and with the Minister of
Natural Resources. However, the Premier has given the order that there will be no more discussions
by his ministers with the intention of helping Mr. Paget. The Premier has ordered that there be an
RFP released, and he will not give Mr. Paget another year’s lease.
017 14:05
In fact, the reasons we were given at the meeting with six MLAs and Department of Natural
Resources officials were the taxes and the so-called noncompliance with tourism standards.
However, we have a letter from the Deputy Minister of Tourism which states that there are no
outstanding issues with Mr. Paget and Woolastook Park. In fact, the last time the Department of
Tourism did an inspection was in July of last year, and in November, DNR had canceled the lease
without getting the current information from Tourism. Therefore, we are asking the ministers and
asking the government, with this new information, to put a hold on the request for proposals and to
give Mr. Paget another year’s lease. He has done everything that has been asked of him. Can we do
something for Mr. Paget?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: I am not sure there was a question in that soliloquy, but I will certainly advise the
Minister of Natural Resources of the request that has been made.
Mr. Carr: I take the regional minister at his word. In fact, behind the scenes, the minister has been
trying to do what he can, but the Premier, very clearly, has ordered the ministers to forget about Mr.
Paget and to go on with requests for proposals. I am hoping that today, with the support of the
campers . . . I am hoping that the campers will stay around in the lobby afterwards to talk to the
media, to show them exactly why they are solidly behind Mr. Paget.
Unfortunately, the members opposite think that this is a joking matter. It is petty politics. In fact,
Mr. Paget is just a good New Brunswicker who has put $600 000 of his own money into
building—not government money. He got a loan of $100 000 to help, but for the rest, he put in his
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own money. He has met all the standards. We have confirmation from the tax commissioner that
there are no outstanding issues. We also have the fact that Mr. Paget has paid over $90 000 over
back debts, grants, and past taxes. He has an outstanding current tax bill of only $7 500. He has put
in $600 000 of his own money. He has brought the camp from 30 seasonals to 150 seasonals. I think
this is a New Brunswick icon that should be commended by the government rather than being put
down.
We have a letter from the electrical inspector at the park. He says that the electrical system at the
park is presently in the best system it has been in in years.
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Carr: Will the government agree to give him back his lease?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: Again, I must reiterate that this is really not a matter that involves the Minister
of Business New Brunswick. It falls under the Department of Natural Resources. That department
has made a decision, based on the information that has been available to it, to terminate the lease.
I believe my colleague, on his return, will be quite prepared to address that issue.
Mr. Carr: Not only that, Mr. Paget’s taxes have gone up this year because of this Liberal
government, which is making it even harder for him to do his job. Then, he had the rug pulled out
from underneath him. If there is a new willingness among the ministers . . . Unfortunately, as has
been stated, the Premier is away in Montreal on other business. When we have the Premier back in
New Brunswick, we would like his personal commitment. Will the minister bring this to the
attention of the Premier again and fight for the campers the way the government was supposed to
when it was elected? At election time, the government said it would fight. Why has it forgotten
about the people after the election?
Again, there are certainly very good grounds for the campers. In fact, the support in the gallery has
shown that not one individual at that campsite wants Mr. Paget to go. The only ones we can think
of who wants him to go are Larry Jewett and the Premier of New Brunswick. We want to know: Can
he cancel all backroom deals? Will he make a deal to put a hold on the request for proposals and
give Mr. Paget another year’s lease, so that we can show the rest of New Brunswick that hard work
pays off and that we can build our province together?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: I think it is bad form to make spurious and false allegations about an individual
who is not able to be on the floor of the House to defend himself. The Department of Natural
Resources made its decision based on the information available to it. That information will be made
available. I am sure the media would like to make a request for that information, and they will have
every right to have that information.
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With respect to the campers, the Department of Natural Resources did act quickly so that the
campers would not have to remove their structures from the park. They will be able to maintain their
structures in the park through the RFP process.
Mr. Speaker: Time is up. The time for question period is now over.
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