It all depends on Ontario, and it isn't impossible to think that he could be PM, they were predicting a majority win for him up to two weeks before the last election.
However, most seats in Ontario had a comfortable lead for liberals, but who knows. The biggest drawback is that he is a westerner with an emphasis on social conservatism, and that he said he'd going to stop corporate handouts. In Ontario that's a big no-no, the only reason most companies are there is because of handouts.
"...they were predicting a majority win for him up to two weeks before the last election." 11: 46 does that tell you something. It will be worse for him this time around. It is his right-wing philosopy which will do him in, corporations or no corporations.
WELL THE GOMERY REPORT IS IN AND WHAT A FARCE......MARTIN IS VINDICATED AND CHRETIEN IS CALLED A LIAR!!!!!! WELL IF I WAS THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, I AM SURE I WOULD KNOW IF I SIGNED A CHEQUE FOR 250 MILLION DOLLARS AND GAVE IT TO THE PRIME MINISTERS OFFICE TO DO WHAT THEY FELT LIKE WITH IT.......SO ALL THIS WAITING FOR WHAT, JUST WHAT THE PEOPLE PREDICTED, A BIG FARCE!!! IF I LOST 30 CENTS IN MY CHEQUE BOOK, I WOULD FIND IT LET ALONE 250 MILLION DOLLARS......IT IS TIME THIS LIBERAL GOVERNMENT LEFT OFFICE IN THE SPRING, AND THE PEOPLE WANT TO CLEAN HOUSE AND KICK THEM ALL TO THE CURB....WE DON'T WANT THE $500,000.00 PAY OFF FROM THE LIBERAL PARTY TO STAY IN POWER AS THE STOLEN FIGURE IS $250, MILLION!!!!!!!!!
That's a lot of yelling but I admire 2:22's passion.
Yeah I can't figure out how Martin was absolved either but you know what, he's doing the right things. The Liberal Party will pay back the money to the taxpayers (some of it anyway), the RCMP are called in and a bunch of Liberals are being kicked out of the party. Personally, given the evidence I think Chretin should be kicked out too. I have no use for Martin and think he's a weasel but he's doing the right things, I'll give him that.
It goes to show you just how scared Ontarians are of the social conservatism of Harper, of course everybody KNOWS Martin is a weasel, find me a politician who isn't and I'll show you a permanent backbencher.
As for Gomery it's completely ludicrous that Chretien or Martin would know how this money is used. Politicians know next to nothing about the departments they run, they are regular people like you and me. Martin basically listened to the BCCE board and did what they told him to. That he would know about where some cheques are going is crazy. Even most middle managers of companies can't tell you stuff like that.
In politics even if that weren't true then party members know better than to involve higher ups in such shenanigans.
But so what, anybody that doesn't know pork barreling is what politics is all about is delusional. The 'new' conservatives have many of the same people as the 'old' conservatives, and just read "On the Take" to find out how crooked conservatives can be. And of course we all know what kind of people they are just by how they treated David Orchard.
Ironically, nobody even bothers to think about voting in the party that at least CLAIMS that it is interested in canadians, namely the NDP. Most of the people I know voted liberal out of fear of conservatives, but canadians obviously WANT crooks as leaders.
That's because the NDP comes across as nuts. If they got some relistic policies that appeal to more than just the marijuana smokers they might have a chance.
16% of canadians voted for NDP even though it's often throwing your vote away because of the electoral system, that's over 2 million people, the biggest gain of any political party. Obviously lots of canadians don't think their policies are 'nuts'.
Interesting point 9:28 and you're right, lots of Canadians don't think the NDP is "nuts" but let's take another point of view that you may disagree with. The Conservatives received 30% of the vote in 2004 BUT are written off mostly by NDPers and Liberals as "scary" and not worth listening to. I would argue we're all worth listening to even when you don't agree.
They aren't written off, they simply aren't voted for. Again, the conservatives, like the liberals, always have big money behind them, which makes them closer to power. If you look at the history of Canada it is primarily liberal, then conservative when canadians find liberals too corrupt. However, it is mostly the 'first past the post' system that makes it incredibly difficult to actually make inroads, which is why we had Chretiens government with a liberal majority even though for most of that time they were voted against more often than voted for.
As for policy, the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Go look at actual votes in parliament. On fiscal or bureaucratic matters, the liberals and conservatives both vote identically. The only time there is a significant difference is when it is a social issue. The NDP and Bloc consistently vote against liberal and conservative policies, yet vary on the particulars. In some cases they agree with conservatives, in some cases liberals.
Personally, in 'democratic' issues I am far more conservative. It was Mulroney who had a referendum on constitutional matters, Trudeau didn't even include the Premiers. It was Mulroney who nominated the ONLY elected Senator in Canadian history. However, socially I don't agree with the christian conservative agenda (which we don't need to get into yet again).
Personally, I've also noticed that the conservatives have dropped just about every issue that made them a grassroots party, in particular the citizens initiatives, so I see absolutely no reason to support the conservatives.
We should keep in mind that the NDP also makes democratic promises regarding proportional representation, but then like every party loses interest when they gain power such as in Ontario and currently in Manitoba and Sask. So I'm certainly not an NDP supporter, however, they ARE the only ones who stray from the fiscal policy which the Business Executives have sold to canadians, ie. paying off investors rather than investing in infrastructure. We shouldn't be surprised that no country in the world has copied our fiscal policy, and while the canadian economy is 'at peak' (according to the Bank of Canada), Canadians certainly aren't enjoying any fruits of that benefit. Apart from a few cities, Canada is hurting quite badly and the NDP is the only party, apart from fringe parties like Green, Communist, Marxist-Leninist, etc., which is even talking about policies which affect canadians.
Both the leading parties only talk about how to help business and trickle down economics, something discredited in the eighties. New Brunswickers should be less sympathetic to such policies, the province has the lowest corporate tax rate on the continent and is an economic basket case for the majority of residents. Of course if you get your news from Irving, then your perspective is slightly different, as things are coming up roses for the Irvings, and they like people to think that NB'ers share in their prosperity.
Not sure if 2:09 is the same as 9:28 (sheesh this anonymous stuff is confusing). Not voted for isn't quit accurate. If that was the case, the NDP are really not voted for.
I'm with you on the grassroots comment. The Conservatives waste way too much time trying (I stress the word trying because they don't succeed) to appeal to voters who would never vote for them anyway. They need to get back to the grassroots, find a middle of the road approach while at the same time not become a Liberal clone. Tall order but that's what's needed.
'Not voted for' didn't mean canadians didn't vote for them, the conservatives only got 1 million fewer votes than liberals. It was responding to the 'NDP and Liberals are scared and don't listen to them' line. In fact I'd suggest people listened to them very hard, they just disagreed with their policies (the ones who didn't vote for them I mean). I don't know anybody who voted liberal because they liked them, although many fiscal conservatives did like that they'd gotten rid of the deficit (by hiking gas taxes). I'm going to refrain from commenting on 'what is needed' since I"m aware that that line is different according to every voter.
Good points. Tough call. I don't know how the Conservatives solve their problem. I still think they need to provide something different. Quebec still seems to be the wild card. I would imagine if there was no BQ that the Conservatives would have more Quebecers in thier fold and won in 2004. Oh well, would've, could've, should've. If I had the answer, I'd be a political strategist instead of debating people I don't know. *sigh*
If there was no Bloc, a good portion of those votes would go to the NDP. Quebecers generally favour left-wing policies, the Bloc and NDP share a lot of the same viewpoints. Harper is seen as nothing more than a joke in Quebec.
The above is quite false, just go to elections canada and look at the elections before the Bloc existed. The NDP NEVER had a large constituency.
Quebec elects who is best for Quebecers, which is why the Bloc was a natural step. Imagine the Atlantic Provinces trying to get together to form a party, they'd be bickering all about whether to hold meetings in St.Johns, Moncton, PEI or Halifax...
Anyway, in 1980 virtually every riding went liberal, then I'm assuming it was the perception (or the reality) that Trudeau had screwed them over with the constitution that had almost all ridings in 1984 AND 1988 voting conservative (when it was free trade).
Actually 1:46 I do know Quebecers. Remember the Bloc originated mostly with disenfranchised conservatives. As 8:18 said the NDP have never been strong in Quebec. I'm not even sure if they've ever sent an NDP MP to Ottawa. If they have it hasn't been frequent or in any large numbers.
However, you are right on one point, by and large Quebec doesn't care for Harper and while it's mathematically possible to form a majority government without Quebec it's highly unlikely.
Personally I would like to have a truly significantly change on Ottawa, I have never observed such terrible corruption in the Political arena in many years. This is because we have lost our way as a Nation and we have put God to the back of the bus.I believe that Mr. Harper should be given an opportunity to put his ability where his mouth is, and the Conservative Party should be given that Opportunity to govern this Nation once again. I say this because he seems to be the only Party leader who wants to uphold our traditional family and moral values that were given to us by our Founding fathers.
The current Federal Government doesn't have any regard whatsoever, for the taxpayer, or the voting public they are just making up the rules as they go along.And they hve become a miserable laughing stock to the rest of the Civilized workd. Remember, we were once known as the best Country in which to live. And now we are so far off that mark it isn't even worth mentioning.
Doesn't that tell Canadians we truly need a change
23 comments:
Unlikely but I'd prefer him to Martin any day.
OMG I certainly hope not. A former leader of the National Citizens coalition, in the highest office in Canada.......perish the thought.
PoliticNB it will be a cold day in hell when this guy makes it to the Prime Minister's office. We need not worry about that.
It all depends on Ontario, and it isn't impossible to think that he could be PM, they were predicting a majority win for him up to two weeks before the last election.
However, most seats in Ontario had a comfortable lead for liberals, but who knows. The biggest drawback is that he is a westerner with an emphasis on social conservatism, and that he said he'd going to stop corporate handouts. In Ontario that's a big no-no, the only reason most companies are there is because of handouts.
"...they were predicting a majority win for him up to two weeks before the last election." 11: 46 does that tell you something. It will be worse for him this time around. It is his right-wing philosopy which will do him in, corporations or no corporations.
WELL THE GOMERY REPORT IS IN AND WHAT A FARCE......MARTIN IS VINDICATED AND CHRETIEN IS CALLED A LIAR!!!!!! WELL IF I WAS THE MINISTER OF FINANCE, I AM SURE I WOULD KNOW IF I SIGNED A CHEQUE FOR 250 MILLION DOLLARS AND GAVE IT TO THE PRIME MINISTERS OFFICE TO DO WHAT THEY FELT LIKE WITH IT.......SO ALL THIS WAITING FOR WHAT, JUST WHAT THE PEOPLE PREDICTED, A BIG FARCE!!! IF I LOST 30 CENTS IN MY CHEQUE BOOK, I WOULD FIND IT LET ALONE 250 MILLION DOLLARS......IT IS TIME THIS LIBERAL GOVERNMENT LEFT OFFICE IN THE SPRING, AND THE PEOPLE WANT TO CLEAN HOUSE AND KICK THEM ALL TO THE CURB....WE DON'T WANT THE $500,000.00 PAY OFF FROM THE LIBERAL PARTY TO STAY IN POWER AS THE STOLEN FIGURE IS $250, MILLION!!!!!!!!!
That's a lot of yelling but I admire 2:22's passion.
Yeah I can't figure out how Martin was absolved either but you know what, he's doing the right things. The Liberal Party will pay back the money to the taxpayers (some of it anyway), the RCMP are called in and a bunch of Liberals are being kicked out of the party. Personally, given the evidence I think Chretin should be kicked out too. I have no use for Martin and think he's a weasel but he's doing the right things, I'll give him that.
It goes to show you just how scared Ontarians are of the social conservatism of Harper, of course everybody KNOWS Martin is a weasel, find me a politician who isn't and I'll show you a permanent backbencher.
As for Gomery it's completely ludicrous that Chretien or Martin would know how this money is used. Politicians know next to nothing about the departments they run, they are regular people like you and me. Martin basically listened to the BCCE board and did what they told him to. That he would know about where some cheques are going is crazy. Even most middle managers of companies can't tell you stuff like that.
In politics even if that weren't true then party members know better than to involve higher ups in such shenanigans.
But so what, anybody that doesn't know pork barreling is what politics is all about is delusional. The 'new' conservatives have many of the same people as the 'old' conservatives, and just read "On the Take" to find out how crooked conservatives can be. And of course we all know what kind of people they are just by how they treated David Orchard.
Ironically, nobody even bothers to think about voting in the party that at least CLAIMS that it is interested in canadians, namely the NDP. Most of the people I know voted liberal out of fear of conservatives, but canadians obviously WANT crooks as leaders.
That's because the NDP comes across as nuts. If they got some relistic policies that appeal to more than just the marijuana smokers they might have a chance.
People vote Liberal because they want lesser of the two evils.
What NDP policies are 'nuts'?
16% of canadians voted for NDP even though it's often throwing your vote away because of the electoral system, that's over 2 million people, the biggest gain of any political party. Obviously lots of canadians don't think their policies are 'nuts'.
Interesting point 9:28 and you're right, lots of Canadians don't think the NDP is "nuts" but let's take another point of view that you may disagree with. The Conservatives received 30% of the vote in 2004 BUT are written off mostly by NDPers and Liberals as "scary" and not worth listening to. I would argue we're all worth listening to even when you don't agree.
They aren't written off, they simply aren't voted for. Again, the conservatives, like the liberals, always have big money behind them, which makes them closer to power. If you look at the history of Canada it is primarily liberal, then conservative when canadians find liberals too corrupt. However, it is mostly the 'first past the post' system that makes it incredibly difficult to actually make inroads, which is why we had Chretiens government with a liberal majority even though for most of that time they were voted against more often than voted for.
As for policy, the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Go look at actual votes in parliament. On fiscal or bureaucratic matters, the liberals and conservatives both vote identically. The only time there is a significant difference is when it is a social issue. The NDP and Bloc consistently vote against liberal and conservative policies, yet vary on the particulars. In some cases they agree with conservatives, in some cases liberals.
Personally, in 'democratic' issues I am far more conservative. It was Mulroney who had a referendum on constitutional matters, Trudeau didn't even include the Premiers. It was Mulroney who nominated the ONLY elected Senator in Canadian history. However, socially I don't agree with the christian conservative agenda (which we don't need to get into yet again).
Personally, I've also noticed that the conservatives have dropped just about every issue that made them a grassroots party, in particular the citizens initiatives, so I see absolutely no reason to support the conservatives.
We should keep in mind that the NDP also makes democratic promises regarding proportional representation, but then like every party loses interest when they gain power such as in Ontario and currently in Manitoba and Sask. So I'm certainly not an NDP supporter, however, they ARE the only ones who stray from the fiscal policy which the Business Executives have sold to canadians, ie. paying off investors rather than investing in infrastructure. We shouldn't be surprised that no country in the world has copied our fiscal policy, and while the canadian economy is 'at peak' (according to the Bank of Canada), Canadians certainly aren't enjoying any fruits of that benefit. Apart from a few cities, Canada is hurting quite badly and the NDP is the only party, apart from fringe parties like Green, Communist, Marxist-Leninist, etc., which is even talking about policies which affect canadians.
Both the leading parties only talk about how to help business and trickle down economics, something discredited in the eighties. New Brunswickers should be less sympathetic to such policies, the province has the lowest corporate tax rate on the continent and is an economic basket case for the majority of residents. Of course if you get your news from Irving, then your perspective is slightly different, as things are coming up roses for the Irvings, and they like people to think that NB'ers share in their prosperity.
Not sure if 2:09 is the same as 9:28 (sheesh this anonymous stuff is confusing). Not voted for isn't quit accurate. If that was the case, the NDP are really not voted for.
I'm with you on the grassroots comment. The Conservatives waste way too much time trying (I stress the word trying because they don't succeed) to appeal to voters who would never vote for them anyway. They need to get back to the grassroots, find a middle of the road approach while at the same time not become a Liberal clone. Tall order but that's what's needed.
'Not voted for' didn't mean canadians didn't vote for them, the conservatives only got 1 million fewer votes than liberals. It was responding to the 'NDP and Liberals are scared and don't listen to them' line. In fact I'd suggest people listened to them very hard, they just disagreed with their policies (the ones who didn't vote for them I mean). I don't know anybody who voted liberal because they liked them, although many fiscal conservatives did like that they'd gotten rid of the deficit (by hiking gas taxes). I'm going to refrain from commenting on 'what is needed' since I"m aware that that line is different according to every voter.
Good points. Tough call. I don't know how the Conservatives solve their problem. I still think they need to provide something different. Quebec still seems to be the wild card. I would imagine if there was no BQ that the Conservatives would have more Quebecers in thier fold and won in 2004. Oh well, would've, could've, should've. If I had the answer, I'd be a political strategist instead of debating people I don't know. *sigh*
Spinks clearly doesn't know much about Quebecers.
If there was no Bloc, a good portion of those votes would go to the NDP. Quebecers generally favour left-wing policies, the Bloc and NDP share a lot of the same viewpoints. Harper is seen as nothing more than a joke in Quebec.
The above is quite false, just go to elections canada and look at the elections before the Bloc existed. The NDP NEVER had a large constituency.
Quebec elects who is best for Quebecers, which is why the Bloc was a natural step. Imagine the Atlantic Provinces trying to get together to form a party, they'd be bickering all about whether to hold meetings in St.Johns, Moncton, PEI or Halifax...
Anyway, in 1980 virtually every riding went liberal, then I'm assuming it was the perception (or the reality) that Trudeau had screwed them over with the constitution that had almost all ridings in 1984 AND 1988 voting conservative (when it was free trade).
Actually 1:46 I do know Quebecers. Remember the Bloc originated mostly with disenfranchised conservatives. As 8:18 said the NDP have never been strong in Quebec. I'm not even sure if they've ever sent an NDP MP to Ottawa. If they have it hasn't been frequent or in any large numbers.
However, you are right on one point, by and large Quebec doesn't care for Harper and while it's mathematically possible to form a majority government without Quebec it's highly unlikely.
Personally I would like to have a truly significantly change on Ottawa, I have never observed such terrible corruption in the Political arena in many years. This is because we have lost our way as a Nation and we have put God to the back of the bus.I believe that Mr. Harper should be given an opportunity to put his ability where his mouth is, and the Conservative Party should be given that Opportunity to govern this Nation once again. I say this because he seems to be the only Party leader who wants to uphold our traditional family and moral values that were given to us by our Founding fathers.
The current Federal Government doesn't have any regard whatsoever, for the taxpayer, or the voting public they are just making up the rules as they go along.And they hve become a miserable laughing stock to the rest of the Civilized workd. Remember, we were once known as the best Country in which to live. And now we are so far off that mark it isn't even worth mentioning.
Doesn't that tell Canadians we truly need a change
I guess they're right.
New Brunswick is the new Deep South.
"New Brunswick is the new Deep South."
What's that mean? If someone isn't a liberal they don't deserve to be heard? I don't think Canada has gone socialist, at least not yet.
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