Question period at the New Brunswick Legislature...yawnnnn

Charles 04_07_05 122, originally uploaded by Oldmaison.

ORAL QUESTIONS 48 QUESTIONS ORALES
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 1/10
Demographics

Mr. S. Graham: It is the end of the session today, the last question period. My first question is for
the Deputy Premier. During this session, we have addressed a number of important issues pertaining
to energy and forestry. One issue that I felt has not been given the proper attention it deserves is the
fact that we have a declining population base in New Brunswick, and an aging population base. In
fact, a recent report by the Conference Board of Canada clearly outlines this in a document entitled:
“Canada’s Demographic Revolution Adjusting to an Aging Population”.
In our province over the next 10 years, student enrollment is predicted to drop by 25%. This report
states that by 2025, more than 20% of the population in New Brunswick will be over the age of 65.
We have a declining population base and an aging population base.
012 9:40
The report goes on to state:
Given the time lags involved, Canadian policy-makers and organizations must act now. We have at
most 10 years before the accelerating aging of the population begins to undermine economic
performance and social well-being. If we want to be prepared for the arrival of this demographic
revolution, there is no time to waste.
I would like to ask the Deputy Premier to update us on how, cooperatively, together, on both sides
of the House, we can work to develop policies to address the demographic revolution that is going
to be striking our province over the next decade.
Hon. D. Graham: I commend the Minister of Wellness, who is responsible for immigration. He is
doing his job. I know that the minister was in Ottawa on Monday and was scheduled to go back to
Ottawa today but, for some reason, was not able to go. I can tell you that the minister is on this file.
We have had approximately 2 500 immigrants come in since 1999. That is certainly a lot more than
the Liberal government. It did not even have a plan in place.
Mr. S. Graham: The report by the Conference Board of Canada goes on to address three choices
that are before the policymakers:
There are three ways to address the economic challenge of an aging population and the related
slowdown in labour force growth: increase immigration, increase the number of births, or increase
the number of older people in the workforce. The first two options seek to address a demographic
problem by changing the demographics. The last option takes demography as a given and seeks to
make the best of it.
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 2/10
The government is talking today about its immigration numbers. Last year, in Atlantic Canada, we
had 8% of the population base, yet only 2% of the new immigrants arriving in our country came to
this region of the country. Here, in New Brunswick, we saw only 800 new immigrants arrive,
compared to Manitoba, which has the same population base, but saw over 8 000 new immigrants
arrive. On the immigration side, that is one issue, and we have further work to do.
However, the issue I would like to address with the Deputy Premier today is how we can increase
participation with an aging workforce in this province. The report clearly outlines that we need to
increase the number of older workers in the workforce. Dignity of work is very important, but
retirement is no longer to be fixed to an arbitrary date. I know that the government wanted to bring
forward legislation to deal with this issue, but did not do the consultation that it had promised. My
question, very succinctly, to the government is this: What incentive-based programs are you looking
at to increase the participation of an older workforce in New Brunswick?
Hon. D. Graham: Again, I am really proud of some of my younger colleagues here. The Minister
of Transportation has just had a new baby, as well as Mr. Carr. We are doing a good job toward that.
I have a challenge for the Leader of the Opposition.
There is no question that our numbers are down. The member for Bathurst knows full well that
during one of the weeks we had off, the Minister of Wellness had a full-day immigration meeting
in Bathurst. That is what we are doing. We are working with the stakeholders and getting people
involved. The numbers are there. It is working.
Mr. S. Graham: I would like to report to the Deputy Premier that I am up to the challenge. I just
have to be home for that to happen.
My question to the Deputy Premier is very straightforward. We are not talking about the
immigration file. I am talking today about ways that governments can aggressively remove the
legislative and structural barriers to those who choose to work beyond the age of 65. Some of the
initiatives that I would like to propose to the government today involve government considering
scrapping the taxes on income that employees earn after their 65th birthday, below a certain income
ceiling. This would be an incentive-based program. If we could minimize the taxation threshold, that
would increase the participation of workers over the age of 65.
We should also offer government-subsidized training to maintain the skills of older workers. It is
that level of skill and knowledge that the older workers possess and that transfer of dollars that is
going to be very important as a mentoring for our younger workers entering the workforce. We
should also consider wage subsidies for employers who hire older unemployed workers. This has
been done very successfully in France, Germany, and Korea.
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 3/10
013 9:45
Finally, I feel we need to engage very strongly in a publicly funded ad campaign promoting the
continued employment of older workers in New Brunswick. The dignity of work and the personal
empowerment of a job is very, very important. If we can encourage our aging workers to stay
connected to the workplace in their retirement years by providing incentives and subsidies through
other mechanisms, self-employment, mentoring, and other less structured employment arrangements
would enable our province to benefit from the knowledge and experience of older workers.
Mr. Speaker: State the question.
Mr. S. Graham: My question to the minister is this. I have just given you five concrete initiatives.
Would your government be willing to entertain them?
Hon. D. Graham: I will inform the Leader of the Opposition that we are working very hard to send
him home, so he may have some extra time there too.
Certainly, regarding the initiatives that the Leader of the Opposition has announced today, we are
very open to that. I made mention that we are working with all stakeholders. We will certainly look
at all the information. If the Leader of the Opposition wants to provide that to the minister
responsible, by all means. We are certainly working with the New Brunswick Business Council and
with different sectors. I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that we will do that. We are very
open. I also commend one of the media staff here on helping us to build New Brunswick.
Mr. S. Graham: I, too, would like to congratulate the Kaufield family this morning on the birth of
the new baby yesterday. I understand that in Saint John yesterday, Kathy Kaufield did, indeed, give
birth to her second child, which is very encouraging. Oh, and Dan McHardie as well, since we are
in a friendly mood today.
The point that I would like to address with the Deputy Premier, which is very important and which
he has failed to address . . . We have outlined five key areas where we can develop human resource
policies and practices that are friendly to older workers. Your government brought forward a piece
of legislation last year that wanted to end discrimination with respect to workers who want to work
past the age of 65. However, you said you also had to do the consultation. A whole year has passed.
Can the minister update us on the consultation that has been undertaken to date?
Hon. Mr. Carr: I would like to clarify this issue a bit regarding workers over the age of 65.
Currently there is legislation in place that prevents discrimination regarding workers over the age
of 65. We were one of the first jurisdictions in Canada, in fact, in the 1970s, with very progressive
legislation. However, there are exceptions in that legislation for people who are members of a bona
fide pension plan. The government put forward legislation on that last year. However, after that
legislation was put forward, more concerns were expressed to government. We are doing work on
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 4/10
that, but very clearly, we are leading the pack in the country on this issue. No other jurisdictions
have eliminated that exception for those over 65. We are open to it. We are certainly also very much
open to all of the programs that we provide to our workers. We have 37 000 more people working
in our province today than we did just 7 years ago, and we are going to do even more, because we
have a vibrant and positive economy. We have the lowest unemployment rate in 30 years, the lowest
I have ever seen in my lifetime, and we are going to do more.
Government Agenda
Mr. MacIntyre: I am definitely not talking about babies. We should ban final days if we are down
to this. I know they put a great deal of effort into this subject, but I am moving on.
My question is also for the acting Premier. Looking at this tired, sorry, worn-out bunch across the
aisle today, it is hard to believe that these are the same people who were bright-eyed and bushytailed
at the start of this session. They were so full of hope and promise. Now, they are just full of
hype and broken promises.
Perhaps I should get to my question. This government made 45 specific commitments to be achieved
in this session—45 items in its work plan. As of today, fully or partially, it has completed 15 of
them. The majority of these are only partially completed.
014 9:50
Can the Acting Premier tell us why this government was only able to get one third of its work done
in this session? Why did the Premier spend more time trying to play around with the rules rather
than doing his job?
Hon. D. Graham: When I look over at the front bench, I see individuals who have been here since
I have, since 1993. I can tell you that they are pretty tired also.
We have fulfilled our agenda, why we came to this House. There are record dollars in health care,
record dollars in education, lower taxes, and regulation on gasoline. We have fulfilled our
commitment, and the people of New Brunswick will tell us that too.
Postsecondary Education
Mr. MacIntyre: The tired benches are over there. It is pretty bad when your eye winks and five of
them stand up. They wanted to know at which one I was winking, and it was my eye.
There is only one thing we have come to learn about these Tories: They hate government, but they
love power. Perhaps that is why we have only one third of what they promised to do. Even that
onethird was mostly incomplete.
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 5/10
My question is for the Minister of Post-Secondary Education and Training. The minister has been
threatening to call a commission on postsecondary education. He said that it was going to happen
soon—this spring. In fact, he and I stood together in Cambridge-Narrows when he said: We are
going to develop a policy on rural schools. Do you know what he has done? Nothing. Spring is now
over, and there is no commission. Will the minister give this House a definite time line for the
fulfillment of this broken promise?
Hon. Mr. Carr: If I look across the way and then at this side, if we want to compare, we are very
energetic on this side of the House. What about all the empty benches on that side of the House
compared to our side? We are energetic because we are doing our job, very clearly.
The audacity of the member who was on the front benches during McKenna days. That government
cut funding to universities, student grants, and funding to community colleges. Not only that, but
it threatened to take away seniors’ homes and made more and more cuts to day cares and our youth.
In fact, we have done a lot for universities and community colleges. We have created 37 000 more
jobs, as a government. We have also increased funding to universities, by 34%; to community
college infrastructure, by $14 million; and to infrastructure for universities, by $55 million. We are
going to continue to do more.
We have taken people off the social assistance rolls. In fact, let me remind the member, who is from
the McKenna government and who was in Cabinet, that when Frank McKenna left office, one of his
biggest regrets—he said it himself—was that he could not create jobs. Over 23 times in that
government’s last few years in office, unemployment was over 12%. Consistently, our
unemployment rates are going down, and they are going to continue to go down. That government
neglected social programs . . .
Mr. MacIntyre: Mr. Speaker, that was not worth the standing ovation. You should ban that.
Sometimes, the benches are empty when you are sitting in them. At least, we are here. We know that
this is a tired government. We have said it all along. It was born tired, and now it wants to get to nap
time. This is what this is all about today.
The government said that it wanted to build a skilled workforce for the future. It made a throne
speech commitment to modernize the government of New Brunswick and the community colleges,
which, by the way, are falling down. Do your job, young fellow. They are falling down. You have
been there eight years, and you have done nothing.
Mr. Speaker, with your tolerance, when will the Minister of Post-Secondary Education and Training
get to work instead of chasing the Premier’s coattails? He has a grin from ear to ear every day. Tell
him to go to work for a change.
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 6/10
Hon. Mr. Carr: May I remind the member on the front benches of the opposition that, for four
years, from 1995 to 1999, he was a key member of the Cabinet in the Frank McKenna government.
Talk about the community colleges in his own city. In 1996, he was the minister responsible for
employment, community colleges, and advanced education.
015 9:55
In 1996-97, there was $480 000 for infrastructure. In 1997-98, do you know how much the Liberal
government spent on community college infrastructure? It spent $100 000. When this government
took office, we wanted to turn things around. There were high unemployment rates. The Liberal
government doubled the debt. Unemployment was skyrocketing. That government neglected . . .
We turned this around, in fact, in just seven short years, with $14 million in community college
infrastructure. We also held the line on tuition for community colleges. In fact, when that member
was on the front benches in government, the government increased tuition for community colleges
by $400 per year. That is 300%. That member was not protecting students. However, all he has to
do is look in the mirror. Quite clearly, our commitment is to the students of New Brunswick. We
have done more, and we will continue to do more, for our students as we produce a highly qualified,
educated, and trained workforce. We are well on our way to making New Brunswick the best place
to learn and an even better place to work. I am proud of what our Premier Bernard Lord has done,
and I am proud of our government.
Floods
Mr. Lamrock: Some time ago, when we were looking at rural residents who did not have access
to mail, the Minister of Public Safety said that he could not pick up the phone; someone would have
to call him. We would like to find out what he has also been able to pick up and do in terms of relief
for flooding victims. As you know, in areas like Maugerville, Sheffield, Barkers Point, and Lower
St. Marys, the member for Grand Lake and I have been very concerned about the fact that this
government awarded only $2.4 million in flood compensation and kept $1.6 million of it for itself,
leaving only a paltry third of the money to actually help citizens to overcome the flood. Just to make
sure, it has now been over a year since that flood happened. In the disaster, the emergency response
teams acted quickly, but this government seems unable to act quickly. Can the minister confirm now
that the government has completed all of the paperwork and sent in all of the receipts to get all the
compensation that is available from the federal government under the Disaster Financial Assistance
Program? Has he sent in all of the receipts and completed all of the paperwork?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: Yes, we have certainly done that. I must say that this gives me an opportunity
to tell the people of New Brunswick that we have sent the paperwork in from as far back as 1999.
The federal Liberals owed us $5 million. We had the federal minister here in Fredericton, and he
never delivered a nickel. Therefore, we still have money owed to us from the federal government
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 7/10
from 1999. However, I can assure you that, with this new government and the great working
relationship that we have with it, we will get our money.
Mr. Lamrock: We had some talk about empty chairs. I think that chair is empty even when the
minister is sitting in it, because, when we spoke to the department of Hon. Stockwell Day, the
federal department that operates the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangements, it confirmed that
not only has all the paperwork not been sent in by the provincial government for this flood, but, in
actual fact, in 1999, there was also a flood in southern New Brunswick, and the government still has
not completed its paperwork. In 2000, there were two storm surges in the month of January and
October. The government still has not sent in all of its paperwork. In 2004, for the rainstorm
associated with Hurricane Bonnie, still, once again, the government—which, by the way, is now run
by the federal minister of the minister’s party . . . Maybe he will tell us that Stockwell Day’s office
is not telling us the truth. However, the fact of the matter is that this minister now knows that his
own federal counterparts in Ottawa are saying that, for seven years, he has not completed the
paperwork on one of every five disasters. My question to the minister is this: If you say you have
done your homework, why is no one in Ottawa and in your own party able to confirm that you have
done your job in responding to one disaster in seven years?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: I laugh at the member for Fredericton-Fort Nashwaak. Here he is now
challenging my civil servants. The opposition members make me smile. They are now saying that
the civil service is not doing its job. I will tell you that my civil service is very competent and
capable. It is a lot more competent and capable than the member sitting over there. I can tell you
that. As far as we are concerned, we are working with the federal civil servants. Has it landed in
Stockwell Day’s office yet? I cannot say that. I can say that my provincial civil servants are very
competent and capable. In fact, some of them are your constituents. Why you keep challenging
them, and why you people keep saying that they are not doing their jobs, is beyond me.
016 10:00
Mr. Lamrock: Actually, I am going to introduce the minister to the basic concept of his job. It is
called ministerial responsibility. The minister takes responsibility in this Chamber for what is not
done. That is what every member says right in the oath at Cabinet, and I must say that most of his
colleagues remember that. When we ask questions, it is because it is this minister’s job to answer.
He is the one who brought up his civil servants. He is the one trying to subtly now say: Oh, do not
blame me, it is my staff. I do not blame the staff. This is the minister who collects the paycheque.
He gets the title in front of his name. He should answer for it, and he should be embarrassed for
trying to blame his civil servants for what he has not been on top of since he was appointed in 2003.
The only disaster assistance that this minister is on top of is the disaster that has been made of the
Department of Public Safety under his complete negligence and inattention. He is now shifting the
blame to hardworking civil servants. It is disgusting.
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 8/10
My question is for the Deputy Premier. Seven years and five disasters. This minister has not gotten
his paperwork for it, and now he is trying to blame civil servants by saying that he is not going to
give the answers. He is referring it toward staff. After five disasters and seven years undone, and
the minister blaming the civil servants, should the minister be blaming the civil servants for his
failure? Can the Deputy Premier think of one way in which this minister’s record is consistent with
the idea of ministerial responsibility and Cabinet responsibility in this government’s standards?
Hon. Mr. Steeves: I know the opposition members believe that they would do all of the paperwork.
They believe that they would not need civil servants. I want to tell you that my civil servants . . .
You should be ashamed of yourself. You fellows over there make me laugh. You always condemn
the staff. I will tell you what the staff knows. They know what you fellows are. They know exactly
that we are working with federal civil servants, and we are . . .
Mr. Speaker: Members of the Assembly, I know that everybody is anxious to get out of here this
afternoon, but I must say that we must continue to respect each and every member. When I
recognize a member as having the floor, I expect that you respect that person, whether it be the
questioner or the minister answering the question. The citizens of New Brunswick are not going to
accept that anymore. Today is no exception.
Hon. Mr. Steeves: I have always said that you earn respect, you do not ask for it. I can assure you
that you have never earned yours over there. I will tell you that you have never earned my respect,
because you fellows make accusations that are untrue, and you know full well, and the people
listening out there know full well, that civil servants do the paperwork. I am the minister. I will
protect them right to the end. You can condemn them. You can condemn them continually, and do
not think that they do not know that you condemn them. I am telling you that as far as Stockwell
Day goes, ask Stockwell Day if he does the paperwork. You have had some people over there who
were ministers. As them if they do the paperwork. I will tell you, as the minister, that I am the guy
who will talk with Stockwell Day, but it will be our civil servants who work together to decide
whether everything is legitimate and that everything is done right. That is the way it will be. As long
as I am minister, I will defend the taxpayers’ money and the taxpayers of the province of New
Brunswick.
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Alternative Energy
Mr. Kenny: We continue to see industry pass us by when it comes to real investment and alternative
energy. Just today, United Parcel Service announced that it will be using the hydraulic hybrid system
designed by the United States Environmental Protection Agency in its delivery fleet. This means that
it is using less nonrenewable energy, reducing emissions, and proactively making a commitment to
cleaner, more renewable fuels. The Minister of Energy has made her targets for wind energy very
clear. However, this Assembly has yet to be advised of any targets for any other uses of alternative
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 9/10
energy within this government’s jurisdiction. Can the Minister of Energy tell us today what targets
her department has set out for the use of alternative fuels like ethanol or biofuel in government
operations, and hybrid technologies in the government fleet?
017 10:05
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: We do have information in our Energy Action Plan in regard to our purposes, in
regard to biodiesel, in regard to fuel additives, and in regard to hybrid vehicles.
(Interjections).
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: Departments make their individual decisions on what type of vehicles they will
be looking at within their departments. I know that the Department of Environment does have a
hybrid vehicle it has been utilizing for a number of years now to try to find out where they would
fit into the fleets. We work with the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Aquaculture and the
Minister of Natural Resources in regard to biofuels and biomass plants. These are all under
discussion. I want to assure the member for Bathurst that we are working toward these goals.
Mr. Kenny: I would like to have an update with some information on it, if I could, please. Let’s go
to another example. Just yesterday, Weyerhaeuser pledged to cut emissions in some of their pulp
mills through the use of alternative fuels and technologies. According to the Globe and Mail report,
Weyerhaeuser says that 40% reduction from emission levels in 2000 would be the equivalent of
taking 700 000 cars off the road. Much of their mill modernizations and upgrades will allow these
mills to burn biomass.
We need to support this type of proactive and innovative approach to reducing energy costs and
emissions. This means investment tax credits for innovation, clear benchmarks for hydrocarbon
emission reductions, and a climate that will attract outside investors to New Brunswick. This type
of initiative would have saved struggling mills, like the Smurfit mill in Bathurst. Has the Minister
of Energy had any discussions with her Cabinet colleagues on how investment tax credits and mill
modernization can help reduce energy costs? Or, is the minister content to let her department stand
idle while these operations need her help to become more energy efficient and environmentally
responsible?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: The answer to the member’s first question is yes. The answer to his second
question is no.
Mr. Kennedy: Short and sweet, is it not?
HANSARD DAILY / FASCICULE
June 22, 2006 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 22 juin 2006
S:\HANSARD\HANSARD DAILIES - FASCICULES\2005-2006 55-3\54 2006-06-22 BL\54 2006-06-22 BL.wpd 10/10
We have suggested that this government take a feasibility study on a pipeline for natural gas in
northern New Brunswick. Natural gas is a clean fuel. In addition to industrial uses, it is shown to
be more energy efficient when it comes to home heating. It only makes sense that we at least explore
the possibility of providing natural gas to this region. We know that the Minister of Energy rejected
looking at this opportunity. We also know that she likes to change her mind, whether it be looking
at a second facility at Point Lepreau or flip-flopping on the gas regulation. Has the minister
reconsidered her position, and will she now support the commissioning of a feasibility study on this
matter?
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: I am not sure how I would reconsider a position of saying that we support the
supply of natural gas going to northern New Brunswick. You see, we have been saying that all
along. What we need up there is an anchor load. Am I going to be ordering somebody to start
utilizing natural gas? I cannot do that. Would we like to see natural gas into northern New
Brunswick? Absolutely. I am not sure if that has answered all his questions, but maybe he can come
back next session with better ones.
Recreational Vehicles
Mr. Arseneault: Last year, during the summer tourism season I raised a very important concern that
was brought to my attention by the campground owners across New Brunswick. The concern was
that RVs were staying overnight in Wal-Mart parking lots instead of the campgrounds, making it
very difficult for private campground owners to make ends meet. Although we do not want to lose
any tourists, I did ask the minister to sit down with stakeholders, including Wal-Mart officials and
campground owners, in order to come up with a win-win situation for all.
I have consulted with Nova Scotia tourism officials, and it was brought to my attention that Wal-
Mart in that province will erect signs prohibiting overnight RV parking in the hopes of rerouting RV
owners to utilizing campgrounds. Has the minister approached Wal-Mart officials in New
Brunswick to follow suit, as their colleagues in Nova Scotia?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: This is an issue that has been around for a long period of time. I have
talked to the member for Restigouche about this on previous occasions. The staff has been aware
of this. Yes, there has been correspondence with Wal-Mart. Yes, negotiations are going on with
Wal-Mart, and I expect to have a resolution to this before the end of the summer.