The darn Mayor beat me to it!!!!..lol....I was going to blog- Does Woodside have what it takes to confront the Irvings?
I heard he was on the radio all day long talking about the old building.
I strongly believe the Mayor can do something about Fredericton's biggest eyesore!!!
The cold winter months is just around the corner!!!!
This was a comment that was left 30 minutes ago!!!
Wow! Charles, I have to tell you that I'm impressed. You weren't kidding when you told me that Mayor Brad reads this blog of yours.
Or, it's possible that he's keeping his eye on my petition at http://www.PetitionOnline.com/yksta/ and sees that it's just passed 300 signatures since the Gleaner article a couple of days ago.
Mayor Brad must be slowly realizing that people really do care about Heritage properties and want someone to force Irving to fix the station.
Suddenly Brad appeared from nowhere and was all over the radio today talking about how appalled the City is at Irving and what they have allowed the station to deteriorate to.
I'm really glad he is pressing Irving to do something!
I'm wondering though, how is he doing this?
Is it by sending letters to Irving? Or leaving telephone messages? Maybe Mr. Woodside pops into Mr. Irving's office for coffee and a firm talking to?
Whatever Mr. Woodside is doing I sure hope it's more effective than what the City has done for the past 10 years!
One thing about my petition that folks may not realize is that it is being signed by people from all over the world!
That's a pretty large audience watching what's going to happen. I sure wouldn't want City Council or Irving to mess up on the international stage! How embarassing could that be?
The internet is a wonderful thing.
I hope Mr. Woodside doesn't think that today's radio news flurry will prevent him from getting his own personal copy of my petition. I'll be popping in to see him just like the other folks on my list.
Whoa, just hit 302 signatures as I was writing this!
Tim Scammell, PTech
Acting President
Fredericton Friends of the Railway Inc.
http://ca.geocities.com/friendsoftherailway2004/Fredericton.html
26 comments:
Tim is too modest. It was most likely his interview in the Gleaner that caught the mayors attention. Charles has visited and revisited this topic in his usual kind and caring way and it never had any particular effect then so there is no reason to believe it did this time. That being said, the mayor has spoken out about this in the past too and the results are there for all to see. Lets just hope his more ...diplomatic...style works this time.
Diplomacy is over. Repairs on the Station's roof must commence immediately in order to protect the building from the rain and snow. Either J.D. Irving Ltd. does it or the public will do it. The choice is up to J.D. Irving Ltd. (Remember they own Kent's!)
"Just Passing" should use his real name if he is going to continue his criticism targeted towards public involvement in community issues. Failing to do so will show him to be just a spoiler; his only objective is to disrupt and distort.
Mark D'Arcy
Fredericton, NB
454-5119 (home)
markandcaroline@gmail.com
Well this is quite the development!
This appeared on the front page of today's paper.
Irving says it's planning to restore train station
By STEPHEN LLEWELLYN
llewellyn.stephen@dailygleaner.com
Published Friday October 12th, 2007
Appeared on page A1
Fredericton Mayor Brad Woodside issued a public plea to the Irving family Thursday to do something about the crumbling York Street Train Station in downtown Fredericton.
And the Irvings responded.
Mary Keith, vice-president of communications for J.D. Irving Ltd., said the company plans to restore the train station.
"Our company has committed in writing its promise to refurbish the train station, including a schedule of repairs to be initiated and completed after review and approval by the City of Fredericton Heritage Preservation Review Board and the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada,'' Keith said Thursday night.
"However, restoring the train station could cost up to $2 million and requires a viable commercial development to underwrite the repairs. Our efforts to find a viable commercial development still continue.''
In the meantime, Keith said, the company is reviewing the condition of the railway station to determine what winterization can occur safely and efficiently.
Woodside said Thursday the public has been talking about this issue and asking questions for a long time.
"The City of Fredericton and the council would dearly like to have this situation resolved."
The train station property is on a list of Canada's 10 most threatened heritage sites.
"It looks bad," said Woodside. "It is unacceptable in this community or in any other community.
"We are really hoping that the landowners will address it. That would please a lot of people. That is all we are asking."
An online petition calling for action by government on the train station was recently posted by the group Fredericton Friends of the Railway.
The mayor said the train station doesn't fall under the city's jurisdiction, and council cannot order the Irvings to clean it up.
The property is registered under the name Fredericton Railway Company, he said.
According to a recent legal opinion received by council, technically the property is treated like a Crown corporation, he said.
"If the city was of a mind to enforce its unsightly premises bylaw, in this particular case we have no jurisdiction.''
The mayor said the situation is complex.
"I can tell you that if the city did have jurisdictional rights, if the city could do something, the city would do something," he said.
"I just wanted to make sure that we made that clear to the public."
Woodside said city representatives spoke to Irving staff 10 days ago, and there may be some kind of deal in the works for the property.
"We have not been able to get confirmation," he said.
"We are crossing our fingers. We still want some movement on the property."
It's Woodside's understanding that except for the roof, the building is still structurally sound.
But he said the roof is deteriorating and should be looked after quickly.
"What we would like to have happen is that the rightful owners of the property at the very least inform the people of Fredericton exactly what is the status of the negotiations and if indeed there is some light at the end of the tunnel," said the mayor of Fredericton.
- Wow. So it was Mr. Woodside who we should have had speaking for us all along!
When Mayor Brad speaks, Irving listens.
Now, this whole article is garbage.
If anyone thought this would make me happy and go away they are sadly mistaken.
Mr. Woodside will only become my hero when something has physically been done to preserve the station.
He has sat on the sidelines doing nothing for far too long.
If he wants to jump into the game now and take any credit for anything he had better take the ball and score the touchdown right now.
I have no patience for people who suddenly jump up from the shadows and act like a superhero by spouting words while still nothing happens.
Mr. Woodside, you have done nothing to help us to date. If you want to be mayor again the people want to see things happen. Stop the empty talk!
Everything contained in the article is what we have heard for years. I am very disappointed at Ms. Keith for playing the "pending review and approval by others" card. That's just sad and it's wearing thin.
Okay, the full repairs won't be done for years and years until the City of Fredericton Heritage Preservation Review Board and the Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada give the okay.
We all know that will take a very long time. Even longer since it's unlikely that any part of the "schedule of repairs to be initiated and completed" has been started. Never mind being submitted for review!
These are all moot points anyway.
The fact remains that the roof HAS to be repaired to prevent further damage to the building.
I don't care that the poor Irvings will have to choke up $2 million to repair the whole station.
It will take far less than that to fix the roof to prevent further damage. That is my concern at this point. We have said this over and over again and it's just not getting through.
As far as I am concerned nothing has changed, the petition will still be delivered and I am still demanding action from those who are elected to represent the citizens. It has reached 319 signatures from people from all over the world.
I'm happy to say that it's taken on a life of its own.
The other day I watched as 2 Kent employees pulled up and made short work of covering up the broken door to prevent anyone entering the building. I could not stay to see but I'm quite sure they did a bang-up job of repairing the holes in the fence too.
Kent can now get their people to do the same with the roof!
Now would be a good time.
If this doesn't happen in the next few days action will be taken by others.
Consider that an inside scoop for what will be newsworthy in the next week or so.
Tim Scammell, PTech
Acting President
Fredericton Friends of the Railway Inc.
http://ca.geocities.com/friendsoftherailway2004/Fredericton.html
Mark your objections are duly noted and summarily rejected. Frankly it is none of your concern nor your business. That I choose to use for a name in a place like this is strictly up to myself and ultimately Mr. Leblanc. I suggest if you do not like it you simply ignore it, thats what I do to most of your writings and I am no worse for it. The fact is I do support the development of the old train station. The idea to strike while the "Iron is Hot" too is a good idea, as long as you remember to grab hold of the right end. That I happen to disagree with the the tactics and foolishness as often reflected in this web site is obvious. That you appear to be willing to use those same tactics does show that you know all too well what "to disrupt and distort" means. Do not pretend to lecture me on bad behavior when you yourself are more than willing to do the same. Creating awareness and community involvement is a good thing, insulting people because they don't agree with your tactics is rather less inspiring.
Flyer distributor struggles to stay in business
Those people who are so concerned should do something. Put your money where your mouth is if it means so much. The train station is a disgrace and it would be better off gone than what's there now.
passing gas, 99% of your posts are insulting.
But you cant take it when someone is insulting you.
Your just a little girly boy hiding behind your computer.
Arete de acter come une tapette.
Ter un tanen pis ter plin de mard aussi.
-- maurice the homeless guy --
Just Passing, you are a coward and a spoiler not to use your own name when you attack individuals like this.
How about telling all of us specific examples of how bringing attention to the plight of the Train Station has been disruptive and distortive.
Mark D'Arcy
Fredericton, NB
454-5119 (home)
markandcaroline@gmail.com
JP does seem to have it in for Charles, and yes, its easy to ignore, particularly since they are the same things over and over.
What is having an effect here is the same thing that always has an effect in politics-numbers. You get a certain number to care about an issue, some enough to call the mayor or councillors and things get done.
In this case, despite the swipes by critics, Charles plays a big role. No matter how he does it, the simple fact that he brings it up over and over again at least keeps it on peoples minds. The numbers he gets he then sends to other sites.
'Diplomacy' does nothing. The Irvings have owned that building for years now. YOu can really tell who writes the legislation in the province when a building like that sits in the middle of town, but the unsightly premises act means the city cannot touch it. THats just *&^%ed up.
If that is true, then it falls onto the province to either include those buildings in the act, or else establish its own. To do that of course takes the same kind of work it took to get the first unsightly premises act, and if there were a government that actually cared about such things then it would have been included in the first place.
However, that's only one issue. The other is actually getting Irving to do something. There's a guy trying to get New Brunswickers to protest outside Irving, and that kind of moxy is to be congratulated, even if its presented badly. The simple fact is that people have to deal with Irving since the government has zero interest in making any kind of legislation to deal with issues like this.
That, again, doesn't require diplomacy, they were making announcements ages ago. But its a private company that gets a lot of support from government, so really, the only thing is boycotts, and writing letters to Irving.
Those two tactics are the only way anything gets done in politics. Whether enough people care enough to make noise is the central issue. 300 signing a petition won't cut it. Perhaps if high profile people can make issues out of it and keep it in the public eye then something will happen, but there is a reason that companies pay big money to lobbying firms.
As I said mark if you don't like what you hear or read ignore it. Thats what I do with maurice and it works pretty well. So explain to me what a spoiler is mark? Some one that you don't agree with? Some one that rains on your parade? Your question should be mark is "why would you suggest my few lines in a blog are meant to "disrupt and distort". If you recall that was your statement not mine. Perhaps if you can figure out why a simple difference of opinion can be considered as such you might answer your own question. If you can't take a little criticism here you are you going to manage with the big boys at Irving? The strange thing is I agree (as stated many times in the past) that something has to be done. That I see simply calling Irvings names continually in a blog as counter productive should be even obvious to you. Now if you have something worthwhile to pass one as to what else can be done lets hear it. How about telling us some specific examples of what you think should be done? What other than worrying about a name in a blog can be done?
The objective of a spoiler like Just Passing is to enter into endless arguments with other commenters just for the sake of ruining any sensible discussion about the actual topics themselves.
As far as what I would like done with the Station, here you go:
(1) For the integrity of the building, the City simply tells J.D. Irving Ltd. that the structure must conform to the National Building Code of Canada.
(2) For the exterior appearance, the City simply tells J.D. Irving Ltd. that the roof and other wood structures must be fully restored using clause 190.01 of the Municipalities Act (of New Brunswick) which states that "No person shall permit premises owned or occupied by him or her to be unsightly by permitting to remain on any part of such premises - (d) a dilapidated building."
At least I answer questions put to me.
Mark D'Arcy
Fredericton, NB
454-5119 (home)
markandcaroline@gmail.com
Odd isn't that after reading your definition of a spoiler the first thing I thought about was you. This is in fact the FIRST thing you have yet to post that has even resembled a discussion so please try taking a little time to read what you put to paper before going off on a silly rant. Also keep in mind that is a blog not the Mark D'Acy feel good web page so best get use to criticism as you see its common. Now that being said your suggestions seem straight forward enough. Does the city have a right to tell the Irvings to make the structure conform to the code? I ask that because the mayor never mentioned that in his letter so I was wondering is it possible that the something like the supposed securing of the property with the fence negates the need for meeting the code?..(just asking I don't know myself)..That goes for the second part. I can only assume that someone in the organization has approached the mayor and asked him why he has not done this also. Would I be correct in assuming that? And if so could he give a legitimate reason why he could not. It does make a difference after all. If the mayor said , well we just didn't want to rock the boat...or we thought if we gave the Irvings some time...or it wasn't really clear....well then that sounds like going after the city would be a worth while place to start. On the other hand, if it truly is out of the cities jurisdiction then maybe your targeting the wrong people. Maybe its that big stone building down on the other end of Queen St. Now maybe you have all these answers and these are redundant questions so don't go all crazy on me if that is the case. Just ignore me.
You guys miss the point. Unless the Mayor is lying (which is possible, but what he says doesn't surprise me), then the Mayor can do nothing.
Municipal governments have very little power in New Brunswick, so if its true, then the Mayor is simply another lobbyist.
The point to be asking is if the city can't do anything who can? The next up is the provincial government. If they can pass a law to give Irving a deal with natural gas, then they can pass one to deal with this. While they are at it, perhaps one to deal with ALL 'crown corporations'.
So lobbying Irving AND the province seems to be all that is left. As for the complaints about money, perhaps some of those millions they will be saving on property taxes on the LNG terminal will cover at least the roof.
But as long as people keep tiptoeing around Irving then they simply have no reason to do anything. Perhaps lining up outside their building in St. John won't do much, however, sitting around and continuing to support Irvings while they shut down competition and sue people and leave dilapitated buildings everywhere won't help. Don't they also have a bunch of old oil tanks on the northside of Fredericton?
Now your turn Just Passing. What is your solution to the Train Station?
And yes, the City, J.D. Irving Ltd. and the Bylaw Enforcement officers have received letters asking them to use the Building Code and the Municipalities Act.
Mark D'Arcy
Fredericton, NB
markandcaroline@gmail.com
That is the case indeed anonymous 8:55. I did mention that if it hasn't been done already the it should be confirmed if the city truly has any power here. It would be a waste to take on the city if they can do nothing. It might be you have their moral support but little else. Then it is the province that would be the next logical choice. Write them a few letters, it at the very least makes them think and heaven knows that can't hurt them. I would think even a try at an Irving boycott would be worth looking at. Now I realize that they have been tried in the past by unions and are not always successful but something to consider even for the press it might generate. For all the Irving bashing that goes on in here they are still nothing more than a business and nothing irritates business more than losing some profit. Calling them names does absolutely nothing and probably causes more harm to a group than saying nothing.
What a bunch of Whiners, Take a look at what they are doing in McAdam with a Station also orginally an Irving property aftet they secured the real estates in NB
This community did not sit back and "Whine" they took control, with a vision for this historial site and acted upon their vision. They are a long way from seeing their vision a reality but so much closer then Fredericton. Actuawith that "Whine"lly the first step they took was to replace the roof and secure the historial site. Fredericton...stand up or do you want some Cheese
I'm going to say something here and I don't want it misunderstood.
Mark, I want to say it publicly here that I am happy that we have finally met after all these years. I wish I had more time last week to talk longer with you and Charles at the station. It's a treat to have 3 people together with a common wish to save the station.
I had heard your name before but you had left the Friends of the Railway by the time I came in. This would have been early 2003 I believe shortly after I moved here from Ontario.
For the longest time I was so damn frustrated at the lack of anything going on I tried to put the station out of my mind and went out of my way to avoid going past it.
When Bill Thorpe passed away I relit the fire inside to get this going again.
Now that we've met you I take comfort knowing that you are as committed to this as I am.
However, I want to say this with no disrespect or offence intended.
I have been reading what Just Passing has been saying over the past few days and I have started to respect what he/she is saying.
The comments seem to be quite intelligent and thought out.
Wouldn't someone like this be a wonderful ally in our lonely fight?
I understand how you feel about anonymity but if you can overlook that then I feel Just Passing could become a great help and friend to us.
Just a thought.
What do I know really? I'm from Ontario.
Tim Scammell, PTech
Happy that my power is back on after almost 6 hours.
ONTARIO????? THAT'S WORSE THAN BEING UN MAUDIT QUEBECOIS???
This explain your attitude....
I guess we'll have to ban your comments...
:P
lol
Wait! Did I say Ontario? I meant to say Oromocto!
I know, Ontarians are the big mouth Texans of the north who the world revolves around.
My saving grace is that my father's family is from here (dad came back when he retired).
I came here all the time growing up to see my grandmother and others.
When we wanted to raise our kids in a better place than the Greater Toronto Rathole, this was our our first pick.
The biggest difference that struck me was the struggle for money that the schools have.
At my first meeting of the Home and School I said "we have to raise our own money for what?!"
Ontario is the land of plenty for that but everything else is better here in my opinion.
I get involved to make sure I know what's going on and do what I can to help (Home and School, PSSC, Water and Wastewater committee, Friends of the Railway, for example)
Sure I'm from "away". But I'm slowly being accepted.
You're right though Charles. It does explain my attitude.
We need more Ontarians to rattle the cages out here :?
Tim Scammell, PTech
With my hydro back on but no phone, internet, or cable (Roger's phone possibly a bad idea? Let's discuss it later shall we?)
I am sorry Mr. D"Arcy but that does not actually address anything if in fact the by-laws do not apply as the mayor seems to suggest. I should think that over the past few years the Friends of the Railway must have investigated as to whether or not the city has by-laws that can be enforced in this matter. Perhaps Mr. Scammell knows the answer to that. Now with all due respect Mr. D'Arcy you have yet do offer a "solution". Were it that easy I can only assume that more intelligent men than either of us would have already solved the problem and we would be now fruits of their labours.
But that being said lets start at the most obvious (just in case you have not done so yourself).
The first would be of course do nothing, let it fall to the ground and be replaced by what ever the Irvings have envisioned for that particular spot. That is a solution, just not one relished by some. So what else then, as anonymous stated above buy it. I realize it's not a cheap suggestion. I assume the Friends of the Railway have looked into its cost and evaluated just what kind of commitment would have to be taken by its members to try and raise that kind of cash. I assume they have looked at available monies from different levels of government. Would that be correct Mr. Scammell? I am only talking about the money needed to purchase as is where is. You would have to worry about renovating later. The First thing would be just wrestle it out of the Irvings hands. Other than those choices your back to where you stand right now. Working with the Irvings or pressuring them to do something. If as your suggesting that you have a group that is willing to go and secure the roof for the winter use that to embarrass them. I wouldn't suggest just walking in tomorrow and breaking the law. I'd first ask the Irvings permission. Make it as public as possible. Put a little pressure on them. Get the mayor to say he can sympathize with you...Lord nows there isn't much Woodside wouldn't do to get is name mentioned in the news. Sorry Mr. D'Arcy if these are not "solutions" you wanted but you of all people should no the impossibility of such a silly request on a matter such as this.
Again, the Mayor has never asked his staff to enforce the bylaws. He claims he is powerless to act but that is simply false. He is not being truthful to his constituents.
J.D. Irving Ltd. and the City of Fredericton are just playing a shell game with the residents caught in the middle watching this building fall into itself.
McAdam secured its Station because it had a Town Council that sided with the community. Unfortunately, our City Council sides with J.D. Irving Ltd.
Mayor Brad Woodside can demand from any owner of a residence or building in Fredericton the following:
(1) The integrity of the building conforms to the National Building Code of Canada.
(2) The exterior appearance, including the roof and other wood
structures, be fully restored using clause 190.01 of the Municipalities Act (of New Brunswick) which states that "No person shall permit premises owned or occupied by him or her to be unsightly by permitting to remain on any part of such premises - (d) a dilapidated building."
We need people like Just Passing to use their passion to lend a helping hand to a project such as this. Why not ask the Mayor yourself why he is not responding to our letters for Bylaw/Building Code/Municipalities Act enforcement and report back to this blog?
Mark D'Arcy
Fredericton, NB
454-5119 (home)
markandcaroline@gmail.com
People seem to be a liitle thick or slow learners. There is nothing to fix or repair. Charge the owners for the demolition and make them pay the fines for safety reasons. Stop making new laws for the wealthy. Honestly there is nothing to repair. What safety codes do we follow?
Mark, that is just what I said one whole lot of typing ago..(back when you were still to bent out of shape by names to notice perhaps).. You say the Mayor is being less than truthful so is there someone out there that can simply access and explain the Bylaw/Building Code/Municipalities Act enforcement so those that want can see and act accordingly. Asking or suggesting the mayor report back to this blog (with all due respect for Charles) is not the place to carry out communications with the mayor's office. Surely it would be better to handle such things through the good hands of the people of the Friends of the Railway. I will submit to you that even the Irving paper would no doubt carry letters to the editor about this if written in the manner befitting such expressions of concern about the mayors office if proven to be true. You of course are free to continue posting anything that you wish or that Charles will allow as is his and your prerogative here. I just do not think it the proper forum.
One thing that I have yet to here is what is the consequences of not following such an order if it indeed proven to be the case. I believe the city in the past has moved to demolish structures deemed unsafe. Just suppose that is in fact their only course of action. I suspect that would not be an outcome one would call satisfactory. Knowing what the city can do if the law is ignored is as important as demanding it. If Mr. Scammell is still stopping by perhaps he might inform us on the status of the organization? Are there public meetings held regularly?
The Mayor have left a few comments in this blog in the past.
Come on Brad? Can you shut these guys up by giving your view on this situation?
Thanks in advance...
:)
I suggested to Just Passing that he contact Brad Woodside himself and report back on why he is not using the City's powers to repair and clean up the Station. Just Passing won't even do this small task.
I can't wait to see Just Passing at the next public meeting for the York Street Train Station. Will you be this outspoken at that meeting as you are on this blog?
Mark D'Arcy
Fredericton, NB
454-5119 (home)
I am sorry mark but it is obvious that you really care for nothing other than hearing yourself talk. I was of course aware of that possibility from past actions by yourself but I had thought that you really might care more about a cause than you do about yourself. Sadly I was wrong. I Hope Mr. Scammell that once the roof is repaired that will give you and your organization time to better address the situation. Unfortunately I am beginning to think Mr D'Arcy will be more the liability than you might think. He doe not respond to criticism or ideas not of his own creation well nor is he really interested in any discussion. That will probably be no different if he re-involves himself in your group. Mark, I hope you grow up but I suspect better men than me have suggested that with little effect. finally, do not try and deflect your own ineffective actions by suggesting I do something that you should have done ages ago. You who have been involved with this group in the past and claim to still be concerned should frankly have all the answers to these simple questions and further more be GLADLY answering them for those of us less familiar. You Sir do little for this cause and thats a shame at a time when it was apparent it could use some. Good luck Mr. Scammell I hope you success in spite of of your obvious hurdle.
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