QUESTION PERIOD AT THE NEW BRUNSWICK LEGISLATURE!!!! < Mercredi >

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Federal Budget
Mr. S. Graham: Yesterday Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his Conservative government
announced a $224-billion budget for our country. In November 2005, our Premier, in an attempt to
try to restart his government’s Prosperity Plan, announced a new strategy, Accelerating Greater
Opportunity. This included four key component areas: Investing in People, Building Strategic
Infrastructure, Creating a Competitive Fiscal and Business Environment, and finally, Embracing
Innovation. These are four critical areas that we agree need to be addressed.
My question is for the Premier this morning. This document also made a request of $1.5 billion of
the $224 billion that was announced yesterday in special funding for the province of New
Brunswick. It was an 80-20 cost-shared agreement, where the province would contribute 20% of the
funding and the federal government would contribute 80%. The first portion of the funding
requested was to increase immigration to New Brunswick. A $25-million project, $5 million to be
applied by the province and $20 million by the federal government . . .
Mr. Speaker: Question, please.
Mr. S. Graham: My question to the Premier this morning is this: On this key component area, was
the $20 million included in the federal budget yesterday?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I am pleased that the Leader of the Opposition has taken the time to review the
document called Accelerating Greater Opportunity. I also hope he has taken the time to read the
Prosperity Plan, and I hope he takes the time to examine the Five in Five Initiative and all the policy
documents that support the direction of the government of New Brunswick. The fact is that we have
laid a very strong policy foundation to move the province forward, and we are succeeding. There
is good news in New Brunswick. We are succeeding with more jobs than ever before, with more
investments in health care and education, and with a new partnership with the federal government.
Mr. S. Graham: The people watching the debate in this Chamber today would expect the Premier
to answer the question. He chose not to, which is very unfortunate. My question, specifically, to the
Premier was this. The increased immigration strategy that your government submitted to the federal
government made a request for $20 million. It was a $25-million project. Was the $20-million
commitment included in yesterday’s federal budget?
Hon. Mr. Lord: This is not the place to go through the estimates of the federal budget. This is
actually the place to go through the estimates of the provincial budget. We want to get through the
estimates of the provincial budget, but it seems that the opposition does not. However, that is okay.
I know that we will eventually get around to it and will be able to describe all the good investments
that are made by the provincial government.
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The fact is that we did send to the previous Liberal federal government a proposal of partnership,
because that government kept saying that it wanted to invest in New Brunswick when, in fact, it was
not investing in our province. I decided to submit a formal proposal. That government was defeated.
There is a new government in Ottawa. We have a very good relationship. We have been able to get
money for roads. We have been able to get money for harbour cleanup. We have been able to get
money for a new stadium, and we will continue to get money and work to get money for more
investments, including for immigration.
013 10:55
Mr. S. Graham: I cannot believe the words coming out of our Premier’s mouth this morning. What
he is saying is that he is going to change his demands, based on the government in power.
My question, since the Premier has not answered the first two, is this: The second issue of
transitioning new postsecondary graduates in the workplace is a $35-million project that his
government has committed to. He is saying he is prepared to commit $7 million. Has the federal
government committed the $28 million in this budget that the Premier requested?
(Interjections).
Hon. Mr. Lord: I know that the opposition members find it funny. I am sorry, I am just human.
The fact is that we had made some proposals to the previous federal government. We continue to
work with the new federal government to get investments. All these investments were not meant to
be for just one year. They were designed for a six-year proposal. This is a long-term plan. The fact
is that we do have a partner. The other federal government did not even respond to Accelerating
Greater Opportunity. It simply said no, while the new federal government has clearly indicated that
it is willing to work with us. Frankly, if we can resolve the issue of the fiscal imbalance, we will be
able to do some of these things on our own.
That is why I am pleased that in yesterday’s federal budget, the federal government signalled its
intention to work with the provinces to fix the fiscal imbalance. I intend to be there at the table,
defending the interests of New Brunswick, as I have been doing for the last seven years, to make
sure that this is an important issue.
Mr. S. Graham: The Premier must be admitting today then that . . . I am concerned today, because
the Premier is saying that the proposal that was on the table in November 2005 is not on the table
now, in the spring of 2006, simply because the government has changed power. You would think
that the Premier would be committed to the plan that he tabled in this House last November.
The people of New Brunswick have not heard an answer to the two specific questions on the two
first areas I asked about. On the skills training and retraining program, the Premier had submitted
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a proposal to government whereby transitioning adult learners to the new economy through
enhanced workplace skills and literacy training was a priority. This was a $40-million program. You
were prepared to invest $5 million, but you were requesting $35 million from the federal
government. Was that included in yesterday’s federal budget?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I know that the Leader of the Opposition is impatient, and he is impatient to get
the details of the federal budget. I did not table the federal budget. The federal budget was not tabled
in this House. What was tabled in this House is an excellent budget. It was tabled about five weeks
ago. It is a great budget for New Brunswick, that enables us to fund the measures that we think are
essential for the people of New Brunswick, for training, for education, for health care, for tax relief
for businesses, with a balanced budget.
The Leader of the Opposition surely would know that all the single details of the budget are not
highlighted in the overall document of a federal government budget. There are envelopes that the
federal government can use to partner with provinces to fund certain projects, and that is what we
want. I did not expect to read yesterday in the federal budget: Accelerating Greater Opportunity—X
million dollars for New Brunswick. That is not how we expect this to be funded. We expect this to
be funded through partnership agreements with the federal government, as we did for the highways.
We did get $400-million, two-way funding for the highways of New Brunswick.
Mr. S. Graham: Again, the Premier has not answered the questions he has been asked this morning.
Clearly, the veil of secrecy was lifted off the federal budget yesterday. The question that the Premier
has to answer is this: What new agreement was given to New Brunswick? He submitted a proposal
requesting $1.5 billion from the federal government. Today, he is flip-flopping, saying that the
government has changed power, so we are not going to honour the commitment that we proposed
in November 2005.
014 11:00
It is evident. In the Building Strategic Infrastructure document, the Premier proposed, for the
national highway system—Routes 1, 7, 8, 11, and 17—a $3-million program, a $1-million
commitment from the provincial government, and a $200-million request from the federal
government. The Premier was requesting an 80-20 split. In the agreement that he just announced,
he changed his position and signed a 50-50 deal, which, traditionally, every political party in New
Brunswick did to build better roads.
My question to the Premier pertains to the municipal and green infrastructure. You submitted a $90-
million request. You were prepared to commit $30 million in provincial taxpayers’ money in this
investment, and you requested $60 million from the federal government. Was that announced in
yesterday’s federal budget?
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Hon. Mr. Lord: The words coming out of the mouth of the Leader of the Opposition are really
surprising today. He called the tabling of the budget a lifting of the veil of secrecy. What happened
yesterday was that the federal government tabled its budget; it was not lifting a veil of secrecy, it
just tabled the budget. With the Liberals, everything is a conspiracy. Everything is about some
devious plan. Perhaps that is how they operate, but that is not how we operate.
The fact is, we suggested, in Accelerating Greater Opportunity, that we would invest in Routes 17,
11, 8, 1, and 7. We proposed that we would like to get at least $200 million from the federal
government, and we were going to put in at least $100 million. Instead, we committed to putting in
at least $200 million from the provincial government, because there are some needs on Routes 1,
7, 8, 11, and 17.
When the Leader of the Opposition says that every party was able to get 50-50, that is not true,
because the amount of money that was received by the previous Liberal government for the
Moncton-to-Fredericton highway was zero. It was not 50%; they did not even get 50¢, let alone
50%. They got $0.
Mr. S. Graham: The former government of Frank McKenna was instrumental in signing the Labour
Market Development Agreement. In fact, your government signed the early learning and childhood
development agreement with the government of Jean Chrétien. The question we are asking today,
though, is this: What new agreement has been signed with the federal government in Ottawa that
will give New Brunswickers the opportunity to excel under this proposal that the government made
in November of 2005? I can go down the entire list, but the charade has to end. Unfortunately, today,
the Premier has not answered one specific request for information on where a request has been
finalized in the budget. He has received zero out of this document; a total of $0 has been achieved,
and that is unfortunate for the taxpayers of New Brunswick.
The Premier is saying that the strategy has changed and the plan has changed because there is a new
government in Ottawa. That is not what the people of New Brunswick expect from our Premier. Mr.
Premier, my question to you is very simple. The estimates process, when the document is tabled in
the House, does contain specific items of where money will be invested. Yes, the budget document
has to be kept secret until it is released; that is the veil of secrecy. Today, it is public document. You
had supper with Prime Minister Harper last week, Mr. Premier. Tell us: Of the $1.5-billion request
that you submitted in November, how much did you receive in yesterday’s budget?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I am very pleased that we have a good new partnership with the federal
government. I will state for the record, as I have before, that I had a good working relationship with
former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien. The fact is, the previous federal Liberal government was intent
on trying to interfere with the priorities of New Brunswick, rather than supporting the priorities of
New Brunswick. The new federal government wants to support the priorities of New Brunswick.
The new federal government has been in place for about 100 days. Think about it. In 100 days, we
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were able to get a $400-million commitment on highways—$200 million from the feds, $200
million from the province. That $200 million is not bad.
We have also been able to get a commitment from the federal government that deals with the biggest
issue of the finances of this province and of this country—namely, how to address the fiscal
imbalance. I believe that when the negotiations on the fiscal imbalance take place over the next year,
it will be essential for New Brunswick to be there at the table, and I will be there.
015 11:05
Mr. Murphy: Based upon yesterday’s budget, when the negotiations begin on the fiscal imbalance,
we are going to get screwed again. Yesterday, we got nothing for New Brunswick. The Premier has
talked about his plan. That Prosperity Plan is the same one that delivered 0.2 GDP growth last year,
the second lowest job creation growth in Canada, and has missed three of its five goals so far.
My question is to the Minister of Finance. Two weeks ago, the Globe and Mail reported that the
federal government was going to take $3.3 billion from the surplus of last year and put it into five
different trusts. None of this was every reported. Based upon the fact that we have 3% of the
Canadian population, this could mean $90 million to $100 million in funds to the province of New
Brunswick. Can the Minister of Finance tell us about these five trusts, and indicate whether we have
access to that? Does it mean $90 million to $100 million, which, apparently, it has never announced?
Hon. Mr. Lord: I want to respond to the comments made by the member for Moncton North. First
of all, his language is not very parliamentary, but we are accustomed to that.
The fact is that the only way New Brunswick will be shortchanged at those negotiations is if ever
New Brunswick is represented by more Liberals, because that is when New Brunswick has been
shortchanged by the federal government or by the province of New Brunswick. It is when Liberals
are in charge. The last time the Liberals were in office in this province, they agreed with other
provinces to move to a per capita funding formula that was to the advantage of Alberta, Ontario, and
British Columbia—not New Brunswick. The quid pro quo that should have been obtained at the time
by the Liberal Premier of the day was better equalization, and that was not obtained. That took place
in the 1990s. We know what happens when the Liberals are there. They do not stand up for New
Brunswick. I have been working on the file of fiscal imbalance for seven years, and I intend to be
there to make sure that New Brunswick gets what we need to deliver the services.
Mr. Murphy: The Premier is correct. The language was not parliamentary, and I apologize to the
House for that. The fact is that we will get nothing, zip, nada, hammered by this federal government.
That was the point.
The question to the Minister of Finance is this: On December 1, on the CBC, he indicated that if the
Prime Minister reduced the GST by 1%, it would mean that, in New Brunswick, we will lose $90
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million in revenue. I would like the Minister of Finance to explain what he meant on December 1,
2005 when he said that to the CBC.
L’hon. M. Volpé : Une fois de plus, je tenterai d’éclaircir la situation pour le député de Moncton-
Nord. Il est confus. La question posée cherchait à savoir quel serait l’impact sur le Nouveau-
Brunswick d’une baisse de 1 % sur la TPS. J’avais dit que, pour chaque diminution de 1 %, notre
part de 8 % sur le total de 15 % vaut à peut près 98 millions. On ne perd rien parce que c’est la partie
fédérale qui est réduite de 1 %. J’espère que le député de Moncton-Nord comprendra que c’est la
partie fédérale qui sera réduite.
Donc, les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick pourront garder tout près de 100 millions dans toutes les
régions de la province. Les personnes à faible revenu et les personnes mieux nanties qui achèteront
des produits et des services pourront garder tout près de 100 millions. Je ne sais pas pourquoi le
député de Moncton-Nord est contre cela. Il est habitué à un gouvernement libéral qui taxe les gens
et garde leur argent. D’une façon plutôt obscure, ce genre de gouvernement redistribue l’argent à
ses amis.
Mr. Murphy: On December 1, the Minister of Finance said: So, if they decide to reduce it, there
will be an impact. He spoke of $90 million. Whether it is indirect or through federal transfer
payments, we do not know. That is why I asked for an explanation, because he said that. Yesterday,
the federal budget delivered zero for the seniors, and zero for those on fixed income. It, in fact,
raised income tax for the working poor from 15% to 15.5%, from the lowest tax bracket. For child
care, it is giving out $25 a week, when it takes $5 000 to $8 000 per year for child care in a licensed
institution. The 1% GST reduction helps those with more money to spend, and our working poor and
poor do not have a lot to spend.
016 11:10
I would like the Minister of Finance to tell us specifically what came from this federal budget to
help our poor and our working poor?
L’hon. M. Volpé : Le concept d’une gestion prudente et efficace des finances de la province ou du
Canada n’est pas compris par les Libéraux. De ce côté-là de la Chambre, on nous dit que, si le
fédéral réduit ses recettes de tout près de 100 millions venant du Nouveau-Brunswick, c’est comme
si on disait qu’on réduira les services. Absolument pas. Au Nouveau-Brunswick, depuis 1999, on
a des exemples où nous avons réduit la dette de la province, nous avons réduit les impôts des gens
et nous avons équilibré nos budgets. C’est possible. Le fédéral a la même ligne de pensée que le
gouvernement provincial. Il nous dit que le gouvernement peut gérer ses finances d’une façon
efficace pour aller chercher cet argent à l’interne sans réduire les services et en augmentant les
bénéfices pour tous les gens partout au Canada.
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Je me demande encore pourquoi le député de Moncton-Nord est contre le fait que les gens du
Nouveau-Brunswick pourront conserver tout près de 100 millions qu’on envoyait avant à un
gouvernement libéral qui prenait cet argent et le donnait à ses amis. Je ne peux comprendre cela.
Lorsqu’il nous dit qu’il n’y a rien dans le budget pour les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick, c’est
totalement faux. Les transferts pour les garderies, au lieu d’être de quelque 20 millions par année,
sont de 50 millions par année pour les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick.
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Conflict of Interest
Mr. Arseneault: Today, my question is for the Deputy Premier. Yesterday, the Deputy Premier
stated that Grama’s Bake Shop was placed in a blind trust. Apparently, the Deputy Premier’s
definition of blind trust is that he gets to remain as a director of the corporation and still uses the
company credit card. Pursuant to the Members’ Conflict of Interest Act, the Deputy Premier is
required to receive written approval from the Conflict of Interest Commissioner to have a company
in blind trust while serving as a member of the Executive Council. The Deputy Premier also stated
to the media that he would provide them with a letter from the Conflict of Interest Commissioner
this morning with his written approval on the blind trust. Does the Deputy Premier have this letter,
and is he willing to share it with the Legislature?
Hon. D. Graham: I certainly do have the letter in hand, and I certainly am ready to table it at this
moment.
Mr. Arseneault: It is a question of the integrity of the government and the lack thereof of this
government on this issue. The Members’ Conflict of Interest Act clearly states that no member of
the Executive Council may “engage in the management of a business carried on by a corporation”
and that no member should be making decisions that result in a personal benefit. In March 2003, the
Deputy Premier spent 10 days attending a 3-day conference in Las Vegas on behalf of the
government. Instead of paying for his airline tickets and conference registration fees with his
ministerial credit card, the Deputy Premier chose to utilize the credit card of Grama’s Bake Shop,
the company held in blind trust. If the Deputy Premier has his company in blind trust and, as the Act
states, he cannot be involved in any of its operation, why is the Deputy Premier carrying the credit
card of Grama’s Bake Shop in his pocket and using it for ministerial expenses?
Hon. D. Graham: I certainly did pay for my trip to Las Vegas on the card of Grama’s Bake Shop,
and I will remind the member to get the facts. It was very clear: Grama’s Bake Shop, Dale Graham.
I certainly paid my company back. Once again, we see the tactics of the provincial Liberals. I
encouraged and asked the member . . . He made the statement yesterday: Can the Deputy Premier
tell us why he broke the law? I encourage him to go outside and ask me that question.
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Mr. Arseneault: I would encourage the Deputy Premier to understand what a blind trust means. He
cannot be involved in any shape or form with the company in question. He just admitted a while ago
that he uses the company credit card. The Deputy Premier is not respecting the letter or the spirit of
the conflict of interest legislation. Time and again, the Deputy Premier claimed reimbursement for
ministerial expenses on his company’s credit card when it is not permitted by law to be involved in
its operation.
My final question to the Deputy Premier today is this. Since he has a ministerial credit card at his
disposal, why is he constantly paying for ministerial expenses with the credit card of Grama’s Bake
Shop? Is it because he is accumulating air miles? How many air miles has this minister accumulated
on the backs of taxpayers of New Brunswick?
017 11:15
Hon. D. Graham: I certainly had a conversation with Judge Ryan yesterday. I explained everything
that was brought up in yesterday’s question period. He has faxed me a letter today. I am going to
call, after question period. I will make the call and ask the member of the opposition to get a full
briefing on what “blind trust” means. It is on paper, and I can tell you that I followed every
commitment that is in that blind trust agreement.
Mr. V. Boudreau: My questions . . .
Mr. Speaker: Order. Member for Tantramar, order. Minister of Transportation, order. There is no
need for this. Member for Tantramar, first warning.
Provincial Health Plan
Mr. V. Boudreau: My questions this morning are for the Minister of Health. I would like to talk
about the provincial health plan, which was tabled in June of 2004. There is a section in the health
plan which talks about health research. I would like to quote one section:
Health research is a key ingredient in making the best use of our health resources, to train and
attract health professionals and to promote a culture of research and innovation. Researchers can
provide valuable knowledge that policy makers and planners can use to develop more efficient,
effective health services. “Made-in-New-Brunswick research” will help us find local solutions to
the challenges facing our health services system.
Since 2003, there has been a group, including universities, regional health authorities, the RHA
association, and other medical stakeholders, which has established the New Brunswick Rural Health
Research Network, in the hope that it may one day become a national rural health research institute,
based here in New Brunswick. What funding has the Department of Health allocated to this
worthwhile initiative in the current fiscal year?
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Hon. Mr. Green: I will get back to the member opposite with a precise answer to his question on
that particular area of research in the province. I can say that just within the last several days, I have
signed several letters to researchers here in the province who are working with our universities in
the area of medical research. A lot of exciting work is being done here in New Brunswick, in the
area of health research. That is being supported very strongly by the province. I will be pleased to
provide those details to the member opposite, as well.
Mr. V. Boudreau: Based on our research, the answer is zero. It was zero last year, and it was zero
the previous year. There is also another quote in the provincial health plan that reads:
Research also has the potential to make an increased contribution to the New Brunswick economy.
Every year, national funding agencies invest more than a billion dollars in health research across
the country. However, very little of this funding comes to New Brunswick, due in part to the fact that
New Brunswick is the only province without a provincial health research organization.
As part of the provincial health plan, the government did commit to a $3-million fund for health
research. Almost two years have gone by since announcing this fund, and, so far, to our knowledge,
absolutely nothing has been spent. Can the minister confirm how much of this fund has been spent
to date, and on what specific projects?
Hon. Mr. Green: It was less than 90 seconds ago that I stated on the floor of the House that we have
been investing in medical health research in this province. I indicated that just within the last several
days, we have approved several different projects for funding. Again, I will be pleased to provide
that information to the member opposite. One thing I know for certain is that since 1999, when this
government took office, the growth in innovation and research and development in this province,
in all sectors, has far outstripped anything that happened before 1999, and that is something in which
we take a great deal of pride.
Mr. V. Boudreau: Obviously, if the minister had something concrete to tell us, he would have
announced it during his answers. The $3 million has been on the table for two years now. As
recently as a couple of months ago, when we were questioning the various RHAs, when we were
questioning the department on the public accounts, not one nickel of that $3 million had been spent
to date.
018 11:20
The provincial health plan also states that:
The Department of Health and Wellness will partner with New Brunswick Innovation Foundation
(NBIF) and other stakeholders to build health research capacity, foster innovation in the health
system, promote evidence-based decision-making and increase New Brunswick’s competitive
position in the national health research funding arena.
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We have the New Brunswick Rural Health Research Network, which is trying to get some funding,
some seed money, from this government. I would make a suggestion to the government that it take
10% of this $3-million fund and give it to this network to help it become a research institute and go
get more money from the federal government and from other stakeholders. Is the minister open to
that suggestion?
Hon. Mr. Green: Once again, I have already made it clear. We are investing in health research. I
have also stated that I would be happy to provide the member opposite with details of the
investments we are making. When it comes to improving the health of New Brunswickers in rural
areas, we are making significant progress. There are 214 more doctors in this province,
provincewide, than when we took office in 1999—not 214 as a gross number, but as a net increase.
The health of New Brunswickers, regardless of where they live, is very important to us, and we are
making the investments to make that happen.