QUESTION PERIOD AT THE NEW BRUNSWICK LEGISLATURE!!! < Vendredi >

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Energy
Mr. S. Graham: What was clearly evident this week in Gimli, Manitoba, in meeting with
stakeholders from across North America, is the need for a secure energy supply to meet the demands
of the future. It was clearly evident in discussions I had with a number of stakeholders that energy
security is, indeed, tied to each jurisdiction’s prosperity. While talking to Ambassador Wilkins on
Wednesday, he clearly stressed the need for a secure and stable source of energy here in our
jurisdiction that will help to meet some of the U.S. jurisdictions’ needs, such as those of the state
of Massachusetts.
017 11:05
My question is for the Minister of Energy this morning. The fact is that this government seems to
be making up energy policy on the fly. It has last-minute, ad hoc policies that are crisis-driven. In
fact, what the Liberal Party is committed to is proper planning today to meet the energy needs of
tomorrow. On October 17, 2005, we articulated a clear and sensible position on a feasibility analysis
for a second nuclear reactor in New Brunswick. At that time, your government panned it as being
childish, irrelevant, and desperate. I think those were some of the comments from the previous
minister.
Mr. Speaker: Question, please.
Mr. S. Graham: You changed your position, which we appreciate. What caused you to change your
position on the feasibility analysis of a second nuclear reactor?
Hon. Mr. Lord: The Leader of the Opposition is totally incorrect in the premise of his question. The
government of New Brunswick tabled a comprehensive energy policy in 2002, and it was, in fact,
the first comprehensive energy policy that this province had seen in a very, very long time. In fact,
one of the greatest surprises I had when I became Premier was to find out that there was no energy
policy put forward by the previous Liberal government. The Liberals were not even making
anything as they went, because there was no energy policy at the time. We set a very clear energy
policy in 2002, with clear objectives, and we are meeting those objectives. We are also responding
to the needs and the changes that take place around us. That is why, at the end of March, I
announced a 14-point plan of other initiatives that we want to undertake to help consumers in New
Brunswick deal with higher energy costs.
Mr. S. Graham: I welcome the Premier’s comments, but he did not answer the question of why his
government changed its position to come forward with an initiative that the Liberal Party proposed.
My question is for the Minister of Energy. The former Liberal government was instrumental in
seeing a gas power plant built in Bayside, a 110 MW plant, which is using 42 million ft3 to 45
million ft3 a day of natural gas in the Saint John region. That was a very important milestone. The
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former Liberal government was also successful in building a coal-fired plant, as we know, in the
Belledune region.
The concern that I am raising today, though, is about the Dalhousie Generating Station. Earlier this
session, I asked the minister to update us on the status of burning Orimulsion at the Dalhousie
Generating Station. This plant produces 300 MW of electricity for our base load here in New
Brunswick. I asked the minister for an update, and he said that they were looking at a number of
options, such as burning bunker C fuel or using other available options. Can the minister update us
today on the status of the conversion of that plant when 2010 arrives?
Hon. Mr. Lord: Again, the Leader of the Opposition is incorrect in his questions. I want to make
sure that the facts are straight. The fact is that the government of New Brunswick has been exploring
nuclear options since 1999. We have had meetings with different proponents, including AECL, at
different times to look at a second nuclear reactor. This is not something new for our government.
This is not something that was prompted by the Liberal opposition. This is something that we have
been working on for quite some time.
We have stated very clearly that our first objective is the refurbishment of the current nuclear reactor
at Point Lepreau. We have made the decision to support the refurbishment of the nuclear reactor,
even though the Liberal government in Ottawa decided not to support us. Our energy policy has
been very clear. We are in support of nuclear energy. We believe that it is safe. We believe that it
is a great way to produce energy and that it is cost-effective. That is why we gave the go-ahead to
NB Power to refurbish the nuclear plant at Point Lepreau.
Mr. S. Graham: My third question for the Minister of Energy—I am hoping that she will be able
to answer one question today—pertains to the fact that, with the Dalhousie Generating Station
finishing off its contract in 2010, the contract with Venezuela to burn Orimulsion, now the time has
come to begin planning for the future. Today, I would like to propose what we feel is a very sensible
solution. A feasibility analysis should also be undertaken with the Dalhousie Generating Station to
look at burning natural gas at this production facility. We know that if we are going to secure natural
gas in the north, we need to have an appropriate anchor load.
018 11:10
The reason that, in the past, the Tractebel project was not able to come to fruition was the security
of supply. Today, we are proposing a viable solution.
My question to the minister is this: Would your government be willing to look at a feasibility
analysis of burning natural gas at the Dalhousie station, which produces a base load? This, in turn,
could see a lateral pipeline built in New Brunswick that would bring natural gas not only to the
Miramichi region, but also to the Bathurst region.
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Hon. Ms. Fowlie: As I have stated many times, government here is always very interested in seeing
how we can get an anchor load to get natural gas into northern New Brunswick. I guess I would have
to say that, as we know, it is 2010, as the leader has pointed out. Even NB Power is saying that it
is too early to be making those decisions and will be looking at all options.
I guess I would have to ask the Leader of the Opposition: Would it be suitable to bring this natural
gas up from Saint John, from the LNG facility that the opposition so opposed coming into Saint
John? Is this where they would like the natural gas to come from? Standing in this House, I was the
one who had to defend the LNG legislation with total opposition from the members opposite. Now
they welcome natural gas to the province of New Brunswick, or do they still not want it to be
coming through Saint John because they do not support LNG in this province?
Mr. S. Graham: I think the minister might not have been present for the debate. What we on this
side of the House said was that any incentives for investment in LNG should come from the
provincial tax base versus the municipal tax base. It is the province of New Brunswick that indeed
will benefit from the LNG facility. My question to the minister is this: It is a sensible solution that
we are providing today. In fact, it has the opportunity to tie to the Millbank generating station, which
produces peaking capacity electricity with 400 MW. There is also an option with the St. Rose
facility which produces 100 MW.
What we are saying today is that the Liberal party is committed to a feasibility analysis to begin the
planning for 2010. That means the environmental impact assessments need to be completed and that
the PUB requirements for routing a new lateral pipeline have to be initiated. That work has to begin
today for 2010. Your government is saying: Let’s wait until 2010 and create another ad hoc policy
on the fly. The Liberal party is committed to looking at all options to bring natural gas to the north.
That means with the 300 MW base load at Dalhousie, if that base load is feasible with natural gas,
that then is the viable option.
Mr. Speaker: State the question, please.
Mr. S. Graham: Are you willing to commit . . .
Hon. Ms. Fowlie: What the Leader of the Opposition is saying that he is willing to commit to is
interfering with the day-to-day running of NB Power. He is willing to start micromanaging NB
Power. I am standing up to say that we are committed to looking at renewable energies. We are
looking at wind power. We support NB Power in its request for its interest in wind power in this
province. By the year 2016, it wants 400 MW. We would like to have that moved up some.
We are committed to looking at tidal power in this province, because we believe that the future is
also in tidal power. We have potential for 90 MW of tidal power in the province. We are looking
at biomass plants in the province. We have an energy policy that is advanced. We are looking
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forward to the future and renewable green energy. The opposition is looking forward to
micromanaging NB Power.
Special Warrants
Mr. Murphy: The Minister of Finance has a license plate that says “LWRTAX” but, in fact, after
we see the budget, it should say “HIGHDEBT”. The reason being is that the Maritime Provinces
Higher Education Commission had a budget of $197 million. It has been reduced to $147 million.
They put $60 million into it in the last three days of the fiscal year, supposedly expending it last year
but, in fact, having it allotted for this year’s needs. According to the Auditor General of Canada, that
is illegal and fraudulent.
My question to the Minister of Finance is as follows: He said during estimates, when he was
questioned extensively with regard to this, that he did it by special warrant, that it was discretionary
and would be spread out over three years. This means that $20 million would be put into this coming
year, which would take us to $167 million in that budget for the Maritime Provinces Higher
Education Commission, leaving $30 million less from last year.
019 11:15
My question to the Minister of Finance is this: Will the $60 million that he slipped into the budget
last year for use this year all be used this year, meaning $207 million for the Maritime Provinces
Higher Education Commission this year, or will only a portion of the $60 million be used this year?
L’hon. M. Volpé : Je pourrais espérer que le chef de l’opposition trouve quelqu’un qui connaît
quelque chose dans les finances. C’est tellement facile à comprendre que même les enfants de la
maternelle pourraient comprendre cela.
L’entente que nous avons avec les universités est une subvention sans condition. C’est une entente
qui a été prise sur une période de trois ans durant laquelle une subvention peut être donnée n’importe
quand.
Ce que nous avons fait cette année est ceci : Une journée avant la fin de l’année fiscale, on a donné
un montant de 60 millions qui est allé à nos livres comme ayant été dépensé l’an dernier. Le
vérificateur général n’a aucun problème avec cela. La seule personne qui a un problème avec cela,
c’est le député de Moncton-Nord.
Ce matin, à deux reprises, j’ai entendu ce matin que la vérificatrice générale du Canada avait des
problèmes avec cette façon de comptabiliser. Toutefois, il faut se rappeler une chose : elle a eu un
problème avec la comptabilité du gouvernement libéral précédent. Le vérificateur général du
Nouveau-Brunswick avait le même problème avec le gouvernement libéral précédent, lorsqu’il lui
a accordé une vérification avec réserve et que, l’année suivante, il lui a dit qu’il s’agissait de
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comptabilité créative. De ce côté-ci de la Chambre, nous avons toujours une vérification sans
réserve, et ce, tous les ans. De plus, je suis convaincu que ce sera le cas encore une fois cette année.
Mr. Murphy: There are two principal reasons that what the minister did in the budget is both
fraudulent and illegal. First of all, the Auditor General of Canada, in an identical circumstance with
the gun registry two weeks ago, stated that to establish an annual cap on the amount of money the
government may spend each year on the identified activities, and in holding the government to
account for respecting those limits . . . there must be a fair representation of the actual spending in
the departmental accounts.
Identically, what happened here happened federally, and they said it was illegal. It is also illegal
because fair accounting and fair financing do not use special warrants, which are for urgent
circumstances—extreme circumstances such as floods or matters of great urgency to the province.
By the fact that the government uses special warrants, it admits that it has not properly estimated
the expenses of the department.
The reality is that we do not have a $22-million surplus; we have a $38-million deficit, and I want
the Minister of Finance to admit this.
Hon. Mr. Lord: I know the member for Moncton North is a lawyer, and he loves to use big words.
This morning, once again, he is throwing out accusations that he probably would not repeat outside
this House. He accuses us of being illegal and fraudulent, when he knows that that is totally untrue.
This is coming from the people who more than doubled the provincial debt. The budget this year is
balanced, and it has a surplus.
What the member for Moncton North needs to understand is that the fiscal year ends on March 31.
On March 31, the government of New Brunswick made a payment of $60 million to the universities.
There is nothing illegal or fraudulent about that. We wanted to hide that fact so much that it was
included on page 125 of the Main Estimates.
I want to remind the member for Moncton North, when he talks about debt, that our government is
the only government that has respected the balanced budget legislation that was put forward by the
Liberals. The Liberals could not balance the books. They more than doubled the debt. What the
member for Moncton North is doing today is a discredit to his profession.
Mr. Murphy: What the Premier is doing today is a discredit to the intelligence of New
Brunswickers, who are catching on to this government’s hiding. Page 125 of the estimates states that
the $60 million is being used in this fiscal year, so they are admitting to the shell game they have
been playing. When we look at the record of this Premier with regard to federal matters, it tells us
the success we are going to have in these books. He has zero for Point Lepreau from the new
government, zero on the toll road, zero on the acceleration plan, zero on a one-off deal, and zero for
the Ordinary Account.
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The Minister of Finance is not going to answer the question. They took, in special warrants, $10
million more for winter maintenance last year—the mildest winter in 50 years.
020 11:20
Now, we have a budget that goes back to $50 million. Either he has a crystal ball that tells him that
we are going to have the mildest winter in over 50 years, or government has underbudgeted. I want
this minister to tell me what proof he has, from any district engineer, any departmental official, any
climatologist, or any weatherperson, that we had an extraordinary winter last year that necessitated
$10 million more. Government has underbudgeted.
Hon. Mr. Lord: The member for Moncton North—who is a lawyer, and I want to remind him of
that—should know that you do not make accusations unless you have facts. Maybe he thinks that
when he comes into this room, he can disregard facts and say anything. The people of New
Brunswick see through their gaze. The members opposite said last year, and the year before, and the
year before that, that we would end up with deficits, and every year, we have ended up with a
surplus in this mandate, every single year. We have lowered the net debt of the province by $140
million. From 2000 to 2005, we were the only province in this country, other than Alberta, that
lowered its net debt. When the member for Moncton North comes in here and say that this surplus
is a deficit, he is totally wrong.
The other question I have for the Liberals is this: If this is a deficit budget, why do they come in
every day and ask us to spend more on absolutely everything? Will they tell us where they will find
the money? Will they tell us which taxes they will raise? Will they tell us where they will use
creative accounting one more time and discredit the people of New Brunswick, like they did in the
past?
Miramichi Regional Hospital
Mr. V. Boudreau: Four weeks ago, we questioned the Minister of Health regarding the Miramichi
Regional Hospital. It was stated at the time that 33 physicians had been recruited since 1999, but
since 1999, 27 physicians have left, and 7 have drastically reduced their services, for a net loss of
1 in the community. Yesterday, in the Telegraph Journal, it was confirmed that 3 more physicians
are leaving the Miramichi: 2 anaesthetists and 1 internist. That is over and above what we just found
out today, which is that 2 of the recruits that were announced in this House are not coming to the
Miramichi—even before starting. That leaves the Miramichi with 1 anaesthetist and 1 internist. No
internist means no critical care unit and no acute cardiac care. No anaesthetist means no obstetrics
and no surgery, and, in Miramichi’s case, no new pain clinic. The secretive Badley report was
commissioned to look into what seems to be a severe problem with physician retention in Region
7, but its findings were never released. My question to the minister is this: What is the Minister of
Health going to do to stop the bleeding of physicians that is occurring at the Region 7 Miramichi
Regional Hospital?
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Hon. Mr. Green: Let us, first of all, take a moment to correct some inaccuracies. It is not true that
seven physicians in Region 7 have drastically reduced their practices. That is simply not true. Within
that group, there are physicians who have moved from a community-based practice into a hospitalbased
practice. I can assure you that they are just as busy now as they were before. The fact is that
there has been a net gain of physicians in Region 7 since 1999. That is true. At any point in
time—today, 7 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago—there have always been physicians, in that
region and in every other, who have had small practices because they were reaching the end of their
careers. That is not a change. Furthermore, there will be a new part-time internist, beginning in June
of this year. That is in the same article to which the member was referring. He did not bother to
mention that. There will also be a locum, as an internist, beginning in August. The region itself has
said that it is going to be able to cover and to continue to provide services. We, as a department, will
continue working with them.
Mr. V. Boudreau: All of the seven that I mentioned—and I obtained this information through a
right-to-information request to the government—have closed down their community offices. I am
worried to see a trend developing in the way that this government deals with health care services in
small, more rural communities.
021 11:25
I was reviewing an article in the Daily Gleaner, in September 2002, talking about the Minto hospital
losing the services of three doctors. At that time, Premier Lord promised access to primary health
care 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in Minto. My colleague from Grand Lake can testify that is not
the case today. More recently, it is the people of the Miramichi who are worried about the status of
their hospital, considering all the physicians that are leaving their region. My question to the
minister is this: If services such as critical care, acute cardiac care, obstetrics, and surgery are lost
as a result of the lack of physicians, is there a risk that the Miramichi Regional Hospital could lose
its regional status?
Hon. Mr. Green: Absolutely not. The only people spreading the fear of the Miramichi Regional
Hospital losing its regional status are the members opposite, and it is for petty political reasons.
There is no chance of that whatsoever. Region 7 itself, this week, confirmed that it would be able
to continue providing services. The seven physicians about whom we are talking . . . Again, moving
from a community-based practice to a hospital-based practice is not a loss of a doctor in a region.
That is an important point. To go on, the region—we are talking about Region 7—is in active
discussions, negotiations, and interviews with two intensivists, and those are internists, with a
surgeon, with three anesthetists, and with a radiologist. Those are, as we speak today, all active
discussions and negotiations with that group of physicians who are trying to be recruited in the
Miramichi.
Mr. V. Boudreau: They are recruited, but then, they do not come. In 2004, Premier Lord tried to
reassure the people of the Miramichi, just like he tried to reassure the people of Minto in 2002. He
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promised that the Miramichi Regional Hospital would not lose its regional status. However, in a
government document, obtained through the Right to Information Act, entitled Clinical Program
Design Group, Phase 2A Report, dated March 2002 and labeled confidential and for internal use
only, the following paragraph is found under the heading Conclusions and Recommendations:
Key programs in smaller regional hospitals ought to be evaluated and reviewed with regard to
meeting criteria for sustainability. While rapid changes are not advised, it may be that, in a multiyear
planning context, some existing hospital capacities ought not to be extended after the departure
of supporting personnel.
This sounds to me like what is happening right now in Miramichi. This government is letting the
Miramichi Regional Hospital die a slow death by not recruiting a sufficient number of physicians
to support the services usually found in regional hospitals. When the physicians are no longer there,
the services and the hospital’s regional status will disappear with them. Will the minister confirm
that he is following this recommendation in the case of the Miramichi Regional Hospital?
Hon. Mr. Green: The member opposite is talking about a report that was commissioned when? In
1998. By whom? Certainly not by this government. Regardless of the date that appears on the report,
that goes back to 1998.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: I ask members, once again, when I recognize the person who has the floor, in this
case the Minister of Health . . . The questioner had asked the Minister of Health a question.
Members, please have a little respect when I recognize a member who has the floor, so that the
minister can give an answer to the question that was asked. Thank you.
Hon. Mr. Green: The answer to the question that was asked is this: There is absolutely no
possibility, absolutely no possibility . . .
(Interjection.)
Hon. Mr. Green: The member can point to whatever he wants.
There is absolutely no possibility that the Miramichi Regional Hospital will lose its regional status,
period.
Routes
M. Paulin : Ma question est pour le ministre des Transports. Dernièrement, la population de Saint-
Arthur, dans ma circonscription de Restigouche-Ouest, s’est mobilisée et a formé un comité de
réparation pour la route 275. Le comité de huit membres a été formé lors d’une réunion publique
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et a comme présidente Denise McLaughlin. J’aimerais faire brièvement la chronologie de mes
quelques interventions à la Chambre concernant la route 275.
022 11:30
En 2003, je l’avais souligné lors de ma réplique du discours du trône ; en 2004, j’ai posé les
questions au ministre des Transports et j’ai aussi questionné le sous-ministre durant les comptes
publics ; en 2005, on a présenté une pétition de 600 noms à la Chambre concernant le danger que
représente la route 275 ; en 2006, cette année, on a présenté une autre pétition d’au-delà de 600 noms
des gens de la région de Saint-Arthur qui sont préoccupés par la qualité de la route 275. Voici ma
question très importante pour la population de Saint-Arthur : le ministre peut-il informer la Chambre
et, par la même occasion, la population de Saint-Arthur, des intentions de son ministère vis-à-vis
de la reconstruction de la route 275?
L’hon. P. Robichaud : J’apprécie la question du député de Restigouche-Ouest. Le député peut peutêtre
rappeler au député de Moncton-Nord que, même si nous avons eu un hiver assez clément quant
à la quantité de neige dans le sud de la province, cela n’a pas été le cas dans le nord du Nouveau-
Brunswick. Nous avons eu énormément de neige cet hiver. Les températures qui ont apporté des
périodes de gel et de dégel pendant d’hiver ont causé énormément de dommages sur l’ensemble de
notre réseau routier. Je reconnais que la route 275, dans la circonscription du député, a subi
énormément de dommages durant la période hivernale. Je tiens à rappeler au député que notre
intention face à la route 275 est de continuer les travaux que nous avons commencés l’an dernier.
L’an dernier, nous avons effectué des travaux sur 3,6 km sur la route 275. Nous avons l’intention
de continuer ces travaux cette année sur une distance de 5,3 km sur la route 275.
Équité salariale
Mme C. Robichaud : Mes questions sont pour la ministre responsable de la condition de la femme.
Un an après la mise en place du plan sur l’équité salariale de ce gouvernement, les femmes sont
toujours défavorisées avec l’augmentation des salaires de 1,1 %. À ce rythme, il faudra 15 ans pour
avoir l’équité salariale. Le montant d’argent que les femmes du Nouveau-Brunswick reçoivent en
salaires devrait être déterminé par la valeur de leur travail. Même si les femmes sont de plus en plus
scolarisées et n’occupent plus les emplois traditionnels, elles gagnent toujours en moyenne 79 ¢ pour
chaque 1 $ gagné par un homme. Quand allez-vous établir des critères de succès clairs et mesurables
pour atteindre l’équité salariale le plus tôt possible au Nouveau-Brunswick?
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: I am certainly pleased to rise and address the matter raised by the
member opposite. As the member knows, the wage gap action plan has been introduced. We are
working extremely hard with different areas in the province to, in fact, bring the wage gap to a halt,
to end it. With regard to that, a question was raised a few days ago asking how we can possibly do
this if we do not have it in the civil service. I would like to inform the member opposite that we
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believe that actions speak louder than words. Consequently, we have begun a review already of one
of the largest groups in the public service, CUPE Local 1252. This is the beginning. We know that
we will be going through the civil service. We made a promise, a pledge, to ensure that the wage gap
is closed within the public service by 2010. This is happening. It will happen, it is under way, and
we are going to have guidelines in place to ensure that this becomes a reality.
M C. Robichaud : L’équité salariale doit se faire en dehors me des négociations collectives. L’équité
salariale est un droit pour chaque personne, les syndiqués comme les non-syndiqués. Comment
allez-vous vous assurer de l’implantation de l’équité salariale dans le secteur public en dehors des
négociations? La ministre peut-elle soumettre un rapport annuel des progrès atteints, au cours des
prévisions budgétaires la semaine prochaine, sur le plan d’action de ce gouvernement?
023 11:35
Hon. Mrs. MacAlpine-Stiles: With regard to the public service, we currently have eight people
working in the Women’s Issues Branch on the job evaluations of 7 000 public employees in Part III
of the public service. In addition, we have also identified alternatives. We are working with the
public service in order to improve conditions, and to make them aware of what is happening and of
the fact that the government is leading by example. I think that is the point that is important. If you
are going to ask employers in New Brunswick to realize that there is a gap, and that the gap needs
to be filled, it has to start at home. That is what we have pledged to do, and that is what we will do
by 2010, by working with the public service to lead by example in this government.