ORAL QUESTIONS 4 QUESTIONS ORALES
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Government
Mr. Fitch: This Christmas, I would like to thank the Premier for the Christmas card that he just
delivered to Members of the Legislative Assembly. It is a very nice picture of Roxanne.
On this side of the House, we hold the principles of democracy very near and dear, and we know
that there are some members on the other side who may not hold those principles as dear as we do.
Supposedly, this is a government that is only concerned with looking forward and looking to the
future. We can understand that, because maybe they do not want people looking into the past and
seeing what was promised and what is being delivered here today.
I was wondering: In the Liberal election platform, it was stated that, if elected, the MLA for Kent
would bring an open and transparent government. Could he explain today exactly what was meant
by “open and transparent government”?
Hon. S. Graham: Our government is committed to dialoguing with New Brunswickers. In fact, we
brought in some experts from within New Brunswick and from outside the province, to lend their
advice and guidance as to how we can facilitate the process. I know that Crossing Boundaries—an
organization of which the member for Oromocto has been very supportive—is one of the
organizations that is helping us in the consultation process.
It also comes down to having to make difficult decisions. As the member opposite knows, governing
is not easy. We, on this side of the House, have taken the clear decision that the restoration of the
Petitcodiac River must occur, but we have yet to hear from the member opposite what his position
is on that important issue. His own previous government, in its request to the federal
government—in its plan requesting $1 billion in infrastructure funding—requested funding for that
specific project.
My question today is: We have been open on this side. Are you ready to open the gates on that side?
Mr. Fitch: I will be more than happy to talk about the Petitcodiac River at the appropriate time. The
Premier knows that he had his chance to ask questions when he was on this side. If he is patient, he
will have the opportunity to get back on this side very soon and ask questions again.
021 11:25
Right to Information
The topic I would like to talk about today is the Donald Savoie report, which was tabled in
September 2007, and dealt specifically with right to information. There are a number of
recommendations there. There are a number of recommendations that we think should be actioned.
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I need to ask the Premier today, Will he commit, and will he tell this House, when is he going to
action even one of the recommendations from the Donald Savoie report? It was the most costeffective
reports so far to date. It was one of the ones that cost the least. However, if it sits on the
shelf and does nothing, it becomes wasted money. Is the Premier going to waste money, or is he
going to action that report?
Hon. S. Graham: As the member opposite knows, we inherited a system which was pegged as one
of the worst in the country. This is the legacy that the former government left us on this side of the
House. I will take the question under advisement. I will report back to the House as to where the
government is in responding to the recommendations of the Donald Savoie report. It was a
comprehensive report, completed in a cost-effective and timely fashion.
It still comes back to the important question, because it has not been answered. We are clear on this
side of the House where we stand on the restoration of the Petitcodiac River. Where does the
member opposite stand?
Mr. Fitch: It seems that the Premier is anxious to get back to asking questions of this side. If he
wants to change the September 2010 election day, and hold the election today, we are ready to go
to an election any time.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. Fitch: It does not sound like the Premier is giving any open and transparent answers here today.
What I would like to know is this: Has he directed his bureaucrats, and the people within his office,
to stall, or not give any information to the opposition, under the Right to Information Act?
Hon. S. Graham: As I have said, I will take the question under advisement. I will report back to the
House on the status of the response to the report from Donald Savoie. It is a comprehensive report,
and our government is taking concrete steps. In fact, I recently met with representatives of The
Canadian Press, and a number of editors and publishers from across the country, to talk about where
New Brunswick is in moving forward to becoming more fully open and transparent. It was a very
productive session, with newspapers from across the country. In fact, the meeting was held in the
province, here in Fredericton, just as we had a good meeting last night in Edmundston, which the
member . . .
I think it is important to note that we are reaching out today to the federal government. We are
asking the federal government for its assistance on moving forward on the restoration of the
Petitcodiac River. We want to know today, Is the position that the previous government had still in
place? There was unanimous support on that side of the House, when there was a leader, asking the
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federal government for assistance. Can we count on that unanimous support today, to help us in our
endeavours in opening this important river?
Mr. Fitch: I thought I saw a lot of snow yesterday. However, I am seeing more snow fall here in
the Legislature, as the Premier tries to answer a question which is simple and direct, and very clear
and transparent. Many people were stuck in snowbanks yesterday. The Premier is still stuck, and he
is going to have trouble getting out.
This is important. The principles of democracy are at stake, along with the right of the public to have
an open and transparent government. He has not answered this question once. I think he is skating
on thin ice, as well as being in a snowbank.
I will make the question even more simple: Does the Premier take the Right to Information
legislation seriously? Does he tell his bureaucrats, and the people in his office, to take the legislation
of the Right to Information Act seriously, or is he telling them just to stall, and not give any
information to the opposition under the legislation?
Hon. S. Graham: I attempt to be on top of as many files as possible. I have already stated that I will
report back to the House on the status of the government’s response to this important piece of work
that was done. There will be new legislation introduced in this spring session, following the
recommendations of the Donald Savoie report. I am not sure what is bothering the member opposite,
besides the fact that he has not taken a clear position on the restoration of the Petitcodiac River.
Other than that, we always try to be as open and transparent as possible, and we will continue in that
process.
022 11:30
Mr. Fitch: It is nice that the Premier got the note from the anteroom, and now he has an answer; but
he is still giving the same answer that he gave the first time, when he did not have an answer. Maybe
we can compare the treatment we are getting with the treatment that some other people received
when they asked for information under the right to information. Can the Premier tell us whether he
treats the media the same way that he treats the opposition when it comes to answering requests for
information?
Hon. S. Graham: The acting leader representing the acting leader is speaking in generalities. If he
has a specific question, he should ask the question, and we will attempt to respond. Our government
responds to all requests for information in a timely manner. There is a deadline outlined in the Act
that has to be adhered to. There is also a tabling motion. Sometimes, extensions are requested. I am
not sure what request the member opposite is specifically referring to, but if he has a specific
question . . . We have already wasted 10 minutes of question period. Ask the question.
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Mr. Fitch: I do not think the time that opposition has to pose questions to the Premier should be
considered wasted time. That is the type of government that we have here in New Brunswick. It is
an arrogant government that does not want to tell the people about the discussions or decisions that
the government members make as they are huddled together in Room 209 of the Centennial
Building. That is the type of government that these people want us to put our faith in.
This is the situation that we have to right. We hope that the tin man who sits to the left of the
Premier finds his heart and gives back the HST rebate to people, and does not claw back the 1% of
the HST. The Premier is like the lion from The Wizard of Oz. He needs to have the courage to stand
up in this House and tell the people . . . Yes, there are a number of them that are vying for the job
of scarecrow from The Wizard of Oz. We know that too. We want to know if the lion of a Premier
from Oz has the courage to stand up and tell us when he is going to implement the Donald Savoie
report. When is he going to take the Right to Information Act seriously?
Hon. S. Graham: That is the same question to which I responded. I said that if there was a specific
question, I would take it under advisement and respond. I have just stated that we are going to be
responding fully to the Donald Savoie report next spring. New legislation will be introduced as well.
We have not had a specific question yet.
This question period has resulted in the member opposite throwing verbal insults this way and
calling Cabinet ministers names. Today we have clearly taken a position on this side of the House.
I have asked the member opposite for his assistance and for him to take a clear position as well. He
was a member of a government that requested financial assistance from the government in Ottawa,
when his party was in power, for the restoration of the Petitcodiac River. Are they prepared to lend
that assistance to the government today, so that we can see this river fully restored?
M. C. Landry : Comme vous le voyez, de ce côté-ci de la Chambre, nous avons des questions
constructives, mais nous n’avons pas de réponse des gens de l’autre côté. C’est comme cela depuis
déjà 12 ou 14 mois.
Ma question est pour la personne à la droite du premier ministre, soit le ministre de la Santé.
Pourquoi ne respecte-t-il pas le processus d’accès à l’information dans son propre ministère?
L’hon. M. Murphy : Les employés de notre ministère tentent de répondre le plus rapidement
possible à toutes les requêtes d’information publique à notre ministère. On a beaucoup de respect
pour la loi et pour les membres de l’Assemblée législative. On va continuer à faire notre possible
pour répondre aussi vite que possible.
M. C. Landry : Nouvellement nommé conseiller de la reine, le ministre de la Santé ne respecte pas
la loi de la province du Nouveau-Brunswick. J’ai une lettre ici datant du 10 octobre 2007.
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023 11:35
It requests, under the Right to Information Act, the information related to the Premier’s direct role
in recruiting health professionals, including family doctors, to the province, as described on page
20 of the Liberal election platform, Charter for Change. The name may be changed already. What
is your answer?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: My answer is that this Premier has done more for health care in 14 months than
their Premier did in seven years. Their Premier simply suddenly closed down the hospitals in
Dalhousie and Caraquet, closed down beds, and downgraded critical services around the province.
This Premier has been integral in the development of a health care plan that will see more nurses,
more doctors, and better health care—better publicly funded health care. That is what this Premier’s
role has been.
M. C. Landry : Le ministre de la Santé a encore droit à ses envolées oratoires, mais j’aimerais lui
rappeler ce qui en était de cette province au cours des cinq dernières années de notre mandat.
The physician growth has surpassed the national average.
Cela est un résultat positif de notre plan de santé, grâce auquel nous avons recruté beaucoup plus
de médecins. En effet, la moyenne nationale était de 5 %, alors que celle du Nouveau-Brunswick
était de 12 %. Voilà un résultat positif. On demande de l’information au ministre de la Santé par
l’intermédiaire de son ministère concernant le recrutement des médecins. Qu’a fait son ministère
depuis les 12 derniers mois? Pas grand-chose. On attend encore les réponses. Le ministre se plaît
à nous parler des sept dernières années. Toutefois, notre gouvernement avait un plan et une vision,
alors que le présent gouvernement parle d’autosuffisance, et personne ne comprend ce que ce mot
veut dire.
Que va nous dire le ministre de la Santé concernant l’accès à l’information que nous lui avons
demandée? Il ne répond pas. Voilà ma question.
Hon. Mr. Murphy: Just to name a few things, we increased the signing bonus for ER physicians
to come into this province. For rural New Brunswick, we increased the amount for physicians to sign
on to $50 000. We have also gone forward with full implementation and funds for two medical
education programs. We also have their former minister working with us on the development of the
trauma system. We have a new ambulance system coming on board. We also have a new speciality
program in Saint John. We have oncology treatment throughout the north now. We have dialysis
treatment throughout the north. We did not neglect rural New Brunswick; we did not neglect
northern New Brunswick. We made this the best place to practice medicine in this country. It is only
going to get better. It suffered for seven years, and we are correcting that.
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Mr. Alward: What is clear today in the House is that they do not respect answering questions during
question period, just like they do not respect answering the right to information requests. That is
what is very clear.
In the Liberals’ infamous playbook from the last election, they committed to establishing a rural
health institute as a research centre in partnership with the feds. Health care professionals in
Carleton County have spent a number of years advocating for such a facility. A right to information
request was submitted on October 10, with no response. Why is the minister refusing to provide
information from his department? Mr. Minister, the law requires you to do so.
Hon. Mr. Murphy: We have received many requests. They are being fulfilled in a timely fashion.
With regard to the rural health research institute that is being discussed for the Upper River Valley
Hospital, we have entered into discussions with the federal government. A member opposite is going
to be a candidate for the federal Conservative Party, and perhaps another one in the front row, in
time. I ask that they speak to some of their federal colleagues so that we can get the money together.
We are at the table. We want them at the table. If we get their cooperation, we are all set, so there
we go.
Mr. Alward: That has absolutely nothing to do with the question. He did not answer the question.
As a minister of the Crown and as Queen’s Counsel, you are violating the law. Do you consider
adhering to the Right to Information Act as your responsibility?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: Respecting the Right to Information Act is certainly the responsibility of all
government members, and the Department of Health takes it very seriously. We do not want to give
the members opposite the information in some slipshod manner.
024 11:40
We know that they operated what was considered, by some in this country, to be the most secretive
government in Canada. We do not. We will answer those requests in a timely fashion, with the
proper documentation, and they will want for nothing when it comes to information. However, I
know that, when the members opposite were once in government, no one could get any information
from them.
Mr. Alward: Let’s go back to the question: How are other people in New Brunswick being dealt
with? How is the media being dealt with? How are individuals being dealt with? Very clearly, the
government has not dealt with this in a timely fashion. It has not even responded to right-toinformation
requests. Mr. Minister, you are breaking the law. Is it not your responsibility to provide
the information that is requested?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: I signed a number of letters in the last two days, which were asking for
extensions of time requested by my employees, because of the nature of the questions asked and to
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find all the documents. These letters were signed yesterday and, I believe, this morning as well. That
may cover some of the concerns. However, I remember when some of the opposition members were
in government. They regularly requested extensions of two and four months. We act in a timely
fashion. They will get all the information to which they are entitled, and we will continue to do our
job in the Department of Health.
Centrale de Belledune
M. P. Robichaud : Je vais tenter d’avoir un peu plus de succès que mes collègues et de recevoir des
réponses directes et concrètes de la part du gouvernement ce matin. Ma question est pour le ministre
de l’Énergie. Durant la dernière campagne électorale, le Parti libéral, dans son Pacte pour le
changement, a pris un engagement très clair concernant l’expansion de la centrale électrique de
Belledune. Pour rafraîchir la mémoire du ministre, je vais lui lire exactement ce qu’on pouvait
retrouver dans la plateforme électorale du Parti libéral. On a dit très clairement : « Entreprendra une
étude de faisabilité quant à l’expansion de la Centrale électrique de Belledune ». Voici ma question
pour le ministre de l’Énergie ce matin. Le ministre peut-il nous dire où en sont rendues la demande
ou l’expansion de la centrale électrique de Belledune?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I would like to thank the member opposite for the question. As a matter of fact, we
are going to be looking forward to the feasibility study of a second Belledune plant. Certainly, next
on the list is a feasibility study to get gas to the north. At this point, the priority for this government
is to ensure that northern New Brunswick is included in this energy sector and the energy hub, and
we are going to do that through a feasibility study to get gas to the north.
M. P. Robichaud : J’ai une question supplémentaire pour le ministre, puisqu’il n’a pas répondu à
la première question. Je lui demande où est rendue l’évaluation de cette étude. Où en sont son
ministère et ce gouvernement dans l’évaluation de l’étude sur la centrale thermique de Belledune.
Où en sont-ils dans le processus? Le ministre peut-il donner une réponse claire à cette question?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I am fairly new to this still, but I am sure that a mandate lasts four years. Certainly,
within that mandate, the commitment that we made in the Charter for Change will be kept.
M. P. Robichaud : Je sens le besoin, ce matin, de rafraîchir la mémoire du ministre de l’Énergie.
Non seulement son parti a-t-il pris un engagement très clair dans sa campagne électorale mais aussi,
si on évalue ce qu’il a dit dans son plan d’action sur l’autosuffisance, le ministre dilue un peu la
portée de l’engagement. On dit : « Examiner la possibilité d’investir dans une autre usine génératrice
à Belledune ». Pourtant, quand on a envoyé une lettre au ministre de l’Énergie lui demandant où était
rendu le dossier, dans une lettre qu’il nous a fait parvenir le 23 octobre 2007, il a dit :
Please be advised that the Department of Energy does not have any documents concerning the
Belledune Generating Station.
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Le gouvernement n’a rien fait du tout. Il n’a pas analysé le dossier. Il tente de faire croire à la
population du Nouveau-Brunswick que c’est une priorité quand il n’a rien fait et que le ministre
signe de sa main une lettre disant que cette étude ne va nulle part. On se retrouve, encore une fois,
avec un autre engagement non respecté par le gouvernement libéral. Ce sont de mauvaises nouvelles
après de mauvaises nouvelles pour les gens du nord du Nouveau-Brunswick, et ce gouvernement
ne respecte pas ses engagements. Encore une fois, c’était de la fumée aux yeux de la population du
nord du Nouveau-Brunswick. On leur a fait croire qu’on voulait aller de l’avant avec une deuxième
centrale électrique à Belledune alors que le ministère dont le ministre est responsable n’a rien fait
du tout.
025 11:45
Le ministre admettra-t-il qu’aucun document et aucun travail n’ont été faits à ce jour pour la centrale
électrique de Belledune?
Hon. Mr. Keir: Inspector Clouseau has found that there has been no documentation yet on the
feasibility study for Belledune. Of course, there has been no documentation. As I just mentioned to
you, our next priority in this mandate is to get gas to the north. The member opposite wants to talk
about energy and what has been done in the north. For seven years, you folks had something to do
in the energy sector in northern New Brunswick. What did you do? Zero!
We are committed right now to a feasibility study to get gas to the northern part of the province, to
put it on the same footing as the rest of the province. That government had the opportunity to do it,
and it did nothing, This government, under the leadership of Shawn Graham, is absolutely
committed to ensuring that the north is included in the energy sector.
Natural Gas
Mr. Northrup: Thank you for the applause.
We are getting the questions mixed up. Maybe if I were to ask a question about Belledune, I would
get an answer about gas. I have already asked about Belledune, only to get questions about gas.
Maybe we can exchange here. He is full of gas, anyway.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: I find that last comment very derogative and unparliamentary. I would ask you to
retract that statement.
Mr. Northrup: I apologize to you, Mr. Speaker, and to the minister. I just meant that my area was
full of gas. I did not direct that comment to the minister himself.
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Since the minister brings up the gas situation, other people and I have questioned and written letters.
I just want to read this. It is in my words, but it is in writing. I want to make it simple for the
minister. He has probably already read this, so I just want to read it to him, without a lot of pictures
on it:It is requesting all documents, including but not limited to memos, letters, correspondence,
electronic mail, minutes of meetings before and since October 3, 2006, related to the government’s
commitment to conduct a study to determine the feasibility of bringing natural gas to the north.
The minister has mentioned gas before, so I am asking him why we, on this side, have not received
any information yet.
Hon. S. Graham: Let me begin by saying that it seems the opposition is running our of gas today,
asking personal questions on the future of our province.
The speech from the throne, which was brought forward in this Assembly last week, announced that
our government would be moving forward, in this session, on a feasibility analysis toward bringing
natural gas to the north. We are in year two of our mandate. We are beginning the process now of
launching that feasibility analysis.
To answer the question—and I respect the member for asking it—the fact is that we are in year two.
In the first year of our mandate, we worked on enlarging wind power development projects in New
Brunswick. Requests for proposals went out asking for more wind power production. That work is
now proceeding. We have also worked diligently on the feasibility analysis pertaining to nuclear
energy, which was started in year one. There was an independent feasibility analysis. We are now
starting to work on natural gas to the north in year two, as was outlined in the speech from the throne
last week. Only one week has passed since the government’s intentions were announced. I am not
sure how much information the member opposite was looking for in a one-week time frame.
Mr. Northrup: This is something that did not just happen yesterday. This happened a couple of
years ago, and we have been working on it on this side. I do not know why, but the Premier must
have his facts confused, as usual. As my colleague, Percy Mockler, said, the good people of the
north deserve an answer. We were promised before September 18 that gas would be coming to the
north. It was written right in the Charter for Change, in plain English, that gas would be coming to
the north. If you read the Telegraph-Journal, it was saying that gas was coming to the north. We,
on this side, keep our promises. Let’s hear from that side.
026 11:50
Hon. Mr. Keir: I now understand why most of the books of the member opposite have pictures in
them. Obviously, the member either has not read the Charter for Change, or he had difficulty
reading it. We made a commitment in the Charter for Change that we would do a feasibility study
on getting gas to the north. That is exactly what we are going to do. Also, exactly like the feasibility
study done on Point Lepreau, what we are trying to do is get the private sector involved in that
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feasibility study, not only to pay for it, but also to see the opportunity, which the folks on the other
side have never seen. We will try to get the private sector to see the opportunity in getting gas to the
north.
Nursing Homes
Mr. Huntjens: My question is for the Minister of State for Seniors. I have, in my possession, a
newsletter from the Central Carleton Nursing Home in Hartland, New Brunswick, dated November
2007. This newsletter is provided to staff and management of the home, to residents and their
families, and to members of the board of directors. It is also posted on bulletin boards within the
home for any visitor to the facility.
I wish to draw your attention to a section where the retiring administrator, Gwen Jones, who was
the Liberal candidate for the riding of Carleton in the last provincial election, talks of her
accomplishments. She said: Being a good Liberal, I met with government officials last week and
have completed the application for a home support program that will provide care to those residents
in need of Carleton Place.
This statement was signed by Mrs. Jones. My question to the minister is this: Are nursing homes that
are managed by good Liberals given priority in this province over nursing homes that are
administered by other people?
Hon. Mr. McGinley: I do want to thank the member opposite for giving me the opportunity to
respond to my very first question as Minister of State for Seniors.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Hon. Mr. McGinley: I will answer your question as directly as I possibly can. It is like this.
First, let me tell you how proud and pleased I am to be the new member looking after seniors. I want
to tell you that this government has already done more for the seniors in this province than your
government did in the seven years that you were there.
In direct answer to the member’s question, I want to tell him that our concern is for the benefit of
the seniors of this province. That is where I will be directing my attention, and that will be the main
consideration whenever we decide to make any decisions about nursing homes. It will be about
where the need is.
Mr. Speaker: Honourable members, the time for question period has now elapsed.
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(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
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